Need Your Advice on Developing a 5.1 Channel DAC

[Fosi Audio]

Agree with Dolby Pro Logic II.

Is it used to convert stereo movies into 5.1 surround sound output?

 

[Fosi Audio]

• bass management for all audio channels

Hi there, can you pls advise what the bass management is like?

Also, may I know what devices will be common to be connected to the balanced TRS output? Thanks

 

[Guddu]

Looks like the discussion is heading towards something like this:

 

[Guddu]

Is it used to convert stereo movies into 5.1 surround sound output?

That’s correct, stereo to surround like upmix.

 

[Guddu]

Hi there, can you pls advise what the bass management is like?

Also, may I know what devices will be common to be connected to the balanced TRS output? Thanks

Bass Management - frequently cut off for subwoofer.

TRS is balanced connection, don’t think it’s meaningful here.

 

[voodooless]

Is it used to convert stereo movies into 5.1 surround sound output?

If you have to ask what it does, maybe you should not be building an AVR or AVP…

 

[dannut]

Hi there, can you pls advise what the bass management is like?

Also, may I know what devices will be common to be connected to the balanced TRS output? Thanks

Yes, of-course. @markus has written a very good summary: https://mehlau.net/audio/bass-management/
First off it needs to be implemented properly. Upstream of 'speaker' settings (level/eq/delay). If the basics are properly implemented, then I could advise some advanced use-cases also, that would give Fosi an edge over MiniDSP.

If you licence Dolby Digital/Dolby TrueHD, it comes with a Dolby ProLogic2 upmixer bundle. Upmixer is needed to convert 2ch material to multichannel. What makes it special - Jim Fosgate developed a finely tuned music-only upmixer '6-Axis', that was later incorporated in 'Dolby ProLogic 2 Music'. Together with Logic7 they are the pinnacle of music listening modes. Perfectly adequate for movies also, for so-called '5-2-5 matrixing'.

balanced TRS - for connecting external balanced amps. You have one in the pipeline: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...za3-hifi-stereo-mono-balanced-power-amplifier

 

[TikBLang]

What’s the point? There is no decoding for anything with height channels..

I'm expecting this product to be a multichannel DAC and hopefully (because of the HDMI's) some sort of object-based sound format will be implemented, I could be wrong though. BTW, software exists that can drive the amp and enhance the 'spatial sound' feature if the hardware is lacking.

 

[voodooless]

hopefully (because of the HDMI's) some sort of object-based sound format will be implemented

Well, then I guess you’ll first have to explain to @Fosi Audio what that is

 

[TikBLang]

Well, then I guess you’ll first have to explain to @Fosi Audio what that is

Dolby Digital plus -in short terminology Atmos.

 

[Jeromeof]

Dolby Digital plus -in short terminology Atmos.

I would imagine the more expensive licenced formats might wait until Fosi Audio get the basic 5.1 hardware working with the freely available formats. Just supporting HDMI-ARC + some basic configuration of a 5.1 channel amplifier makes a fairly complex product, trying to do too much in one product is usually a recipe for a bad product.

 

[Matias]

I am late to the thread but I totally would buy the first option: 5.1 AV processor. 7.1 or 7.2 would better of course. No need for a thousand channels of Atmos.

Setting levels is mandatory. Distance and timing is a plus.

PEQ is a very important. Auto room correction maybe in a future firmware upgrade.

I always heard that audio codecs licensing is a hell, so make sure you know what you are getting into.

As for adding amp channels into the product, then it is no longer a pre-amp and turns into an AVR. Lots of competition there from the famous brands.

 

[TikBLang]

I am late to the thread but I totally would buy the first option: 5.1 AV processor. 7.1 or 7.2 would better of course. No need for a thousand channels of Atmos.

Setting levels is mandatory. Distance and timing is a plus.

PEQ is a very important. Auto room correction maybe in a future firmware upgrade.

I always heard that audio codecs licensing is a hell, so make sure you know what you are getting into.

As for adding amp channels into the product, then it is no longer a pre-amp and turns into an AVR. Lots of competition there from the famous brands.

"No need for a thousand channels of Atmos"
I agree with you on this but Fosi is just reaching out and trying to collect information from us for ideas on their upcoming products. Of course, they can build, to start a 2.1 version out of this and maybe (re)use the same board and platform (case and connectors) to build and come up with the sub $300 nice-looking desktop that has 7.1/7.2 channels (the size of an old USR 33.6 modem -USR3453C).

No one, (IMHO) at this present time wants (and/or keep) to buy an amp/avr the size of a player like an old Pioneer CLD-d504 (and enjoy Dolby AC-3). If it's a business decision to build a 5.1, then hopefully, lots of their customers might consider buying one. Keep in mind Fosi is just asking for our input.

 

[Guddu]

We all jump on opportunities like this, with loads of expectations and often go out of context.

Since beginning, this product was supposed to be a simple 5.1 channel DAC/decoder with basic DD/DTS decoding.
The idea is really good as there isn't any decent product that could do the same without spending money for either full AVR or AVP.

 

[TikBLang]

We all jump on opportunities like this, with loads of expectations and often go out of context.

Since beginning, this product was supposed to be a simple 5.1 channel DAC/decoder with basic DD/DTS decoding.
The idea is really good as there isn't any decent product that could do the same without spending money for either full AVR or AVP.

What if Fosi teamed up with a company (in the near future) that is already licensed to distribute Dolby Digital Plus (or whatever proprietary format)? They both can co-develop a pluggable stamp-sized daughterboard to swap out the 5.1 module in their AC-3 capable amp/avr. I love the idea of just retrofitting my amp (to add new features ) instead of starting all over again.

 

[Guddu]

What if Fosi teamed up with a company (in the near future) that is already licensed to distribute Dolby Digital Plus (or whatever proprietary format)? They both can co-develop a pluggable stamp-sized daughterboard to swap out the 5.1 module in their AC-3 capable amp/avr. I love the idea of just retrofitting my amp (to add new features) instead of starting all over again.

All right…

 

[jhaider]

Is it used to convert stereo movies into 5.1 surround sound output?

More importantly, stereo music.

 

[dannut]

We all jump on opportunities like this, with loads of expectations and often go out of context.

Since beginning, this product was supposed to be a simple 5.1 channel DAC/decoder with basic DD/DTS decoding.
The idea is really good as there isn't any decent product that could do the same without spending money for either full AVR or AVP.

Yes, agreed. I would like to add to your comment:

• We already have a product in an ubiquitous 'soundbar' category. UX/UI for the end user should be similar:
  • a simple eARC device, that can decode bitstream (Dolby Digital+/E-AC3), adjust volume from remote and bass/treble level. (this due to 'circle of confusion' and the need for loudness EQ at low listening level)
• In addition, this device needs to be a speaker processor: level, EQ, delay, bass management - at minimum. Non-negotiable. If this is not implemented, then for all purposes the device is considered broken. You would still need a basic speaker processor downstream then.
  • this is a setup UX/UI part. Best user experience is with a simple web-based interface, for advanced users just uploading a human-readable JSON/XML configuration file.

All else would be considered a nice bonus:

• An upmixer is bundled with DD+ licence. It would be wise to implement it.
• Amp channels - for those into passive speakers
• Pre-out (balanced) - for those into active speakers/separate amp
  • XLR is large and pointless in a small-form-factor device. Most multichannel small audio devices implement balanced TRS if space is an issue.

 

[Matias]

Yes, balanced TRS would be nice, if possible. But say 7.2 TRS jacks also take a lot of space...

By the way, 12V trigger out is also mandatory.

 

[tinnitus]

Does anybody knew this Canton smart amp 5.1
https://www.canton.de/produkte/typ/verstaerker-vorverstaerker/smart-amp-5.1/04154

I think it is the same as Fosi would create as new.

i can't use this unit, because it can only operate with 2 channel PCM input, LPCM is not possible as canton support told me