Need advice for upgrading current DAC.

[MRC01]

I just read this from the review: "You have the ability to feed it digital data and have balanced output at two different levels (indicated by that push button). Or go analog in and out in which case the signal is digitized, processed and then converted back to analog. I tested both modes. "

So, doesn't that mean the signal would have to go through an ADC to be digitized and then converted back to analog through a DAC for output?

There's a third mode that Amir didn't test: digital in, digital out. This is the preferred mode, as it is fully transparent. Of course when used this way, the DEQ2496 is inserted in the digital stream, like between a digital source & your DAC.

 

[Tiberius]

There's a third mode that Amir didn't test: digital in, digital out. This is the preferred mode, as it is fully transparent. Of course when used this way, the DEQ2496 is inserted in the digital stream, like between a digital source & your DAC.

Yes, I understand this now. I cannot use it in this mode.

 

[Beershaun]

Yes, I understand this now. I cannot use it in this mode.

Can you tell us about your sources and digital chain? Agree the best option is to put it upstream of your dac and pre-amp. Another option is to put it just in the subwoofer analog chain and only manage the bass. Which solves the room mode problem.

This little guy is designed just for managing subwoofers.

 

[Tiberius]

Can you tell us about your sources and digital chain? Agree the best option is to put it upstream of your dac and pre-amp. Another option is to put it just in the subwoofer analog chain and only manage the bass. Which solves the room mode problem.

This little guy is designed just for managing subwoofers.

I don't know why I did not think of putting the Behringer after the digital out ( coax or Toslink ) from my CD player. I would be processing the digital signal from the CD player with the Behringer in digital only mode and feeding the Lavry. Ok, totally clear now.

The OSD looks like something to try also. A little less expensive and only process lower frequencies. I would put it before the DBX 223 feeding the Bryston 4B SST amp to the subwoofers.

 

[Tiberius]

Can you tell us about your sources and digital chain? Agree the best option is to put it upstream of your dac and pre-amp. Another option is to put it just in the subwoofer analog chain and only manage the bass. Which solves the room mode problem.

This little guy is designed just for managing subwoofers.

I don't know why I did not think of putting the Behringer after the digital out ( coax or Toslink ) from my CD player. I would be processing the digital signal from the CD player with the Behringer in digital only mode and feeding the Lavry. Ok, totally clear now.

The OSD looks like something to try also. A little less expensive and only process lower frequencies. I would put it before the DBX 223 feeding the Bryston 4B SST amp to the subwoofers.

I don't know why I did not think of putting the Behringer after the digital out ( coax or Toslink ) from my CD player. I would be processing the digital signal from the CD player with the Behringer in digital only mode and feeding the Lavry. Ok, totally clear now.

The OSD looks like something to try also. A little less expensive and only process lower frequencies. I would put it before the DBX 223 feeding the Bryston 4B SST amp to the subwoofers.

I guess I could also put the OSD after the DBX to process the signal. Probably best to try both. Thanks for your assistance and the great info.

 

[voodooless]

Why not have a look at MiniDSP SHD? You can replace DAC and pre-amp (if you have only one digital and analog input), get automatic room correction (Dirac), and be able to integrate your sub much better than you have now. Keep the analog active crossovers for the L+R after the SHD. As a DAC it’s also quite competent. And cheaper than the DAC3.

 

[Tiberius]

Why not have a look at MiniDSP SHD? You can replace DAC and pre-amp (if you have only one digital and analog input), get automatic room correction (Dirac), and be able to integrate your sub much better than you have now. Keep the analog active crossovers for the L+R after the SHD. As a DAC it’s also quite competent. And cheaper than the DAC3.

I don't really want wholesale changes as I very much like my Morrison preamp, Lavry DAC, amps, Morrison speakers/subwoofers. These are the best subwoofers/speakers I have ever heard. They are of the same design as my mains with 12" woofers and are extremely neutral. They were a pair of prototypes I bought from Morrison Audio when he did still make them. I don't have any problems with integration to my mains. They do not draw attention to themselves and sound seamlessly in harmony with my main speakers. Resonances are very tightly controlled with the cabinets, hence no crossovers inside. I could never afford to replace any of this system if I were to buy it again and would never get back the money that any of the components are worth to me if I were to sell. I was only concerned about my Lavry at first and room acoustics second, and the Lavry issue has been solved. Most of my system is hand built except for the CD player and active crossovers ( Tascam CD200, and the DBX 223s ) and I would like to stick with what I have.
All in all, I actually think my room acoustics aren't that bad, so eventually after moving I think I would like to do it with room treatment.

If you are interested, here is the website for Morrison: Morrison Audio

 

[voodooless]

Using a DAC and a DSP is kind of redundant in most cases. Why have the additional ADC step if you can avoid it? But the SHD also has a digital out, so you can still use the Larvey if you like. You can even keep the pre to switch analog sources. You’d keep all subs speakers and amps as well as the active crossover for the speakers.

So setup would roughly be:
CD player -> spdif -> SHD
Analog source -> pre -> SHD
SHD -> ( spdif -> Larvey ->) DBX -> amps -> speakers
SHD -> amps -> sub
Volume control via SHD

 

[Tiberius]

Using a DAC and a DSP is kind of redundant in most cases. Why have the additional ADC step if you can avoid it? But the SHD also has a digital out, so you can still use the Larvey if you like. You can even keep the pre to switch analog sources. You’d keep all subs speakers and amps as well as the active crossover for the speakers.

So setup would roughly be:
CD player -> spdif -> SHD
Analog source -> pre -> SHD
SHD -> ( spdif -> Larvey ->) DBX -> amps -> speakers
SHD -> amps -> sub
Volume control via SHD

I need a bit of time to digest this as I am unfamiliar with SHD technology and am confused about the above setup.

 

[voodooless]

What are you confused about?

 

[Tiberius]

I need a bit of time to digest this as I am unfamiliar with SHD technology and am confused about the above setup.

Using a DAC and a DSP is kind of redundant in most cases. Why have the additional ADC step if you can avoid it? But the SHD also has a digital out, so you can still use the Larvey if you like. You can even keep the pre to switch analog sources. You’d keep all subs speakers and amps as well as the active crossover for the speakers.

So setup would roughly be:
CD player -> spdif -> SHD
Analog source -> pre -> SHD
SHD -> ( spdif -> Larvey ->) DBX -> amps -> speakers
SHD -> amps -> sub
Volume control via SHD

I only have one input source, CD as I have no turntable now. According to the above configuration I have no need of the Morrison preamp.

 

[Tiberius]

What are you confused about?

It was the terminology. I understand the hookups now.

 

[voodooless]

I only have one input source, CD as I have no turntable now. According to the above configuration I have no need of the Morrison preamp.

Yes, I already said as much . Can you tell me how you now connect the crossovers to your pre? You must have some kind of y-cable to split the signals, or have dual outputs on the pre?

Alternative setup could be:

CD player -> spdif -> SHD (-> spdif -> Larvey)-> pre
Pre -> DBX -> amps -> speakers
Pre -> DBX -> amps -> subs

Volume control is on the pre. Has less control on sub EQ, where is it probably more important. You might be able to loop back the sub pre-out back to the SHD and route that to the second set of channels and then again into the sub crossover. That would also give you sub EQ. Just needs a bit more cabling and a bit more effort to set-up. So like this:

Pre -> SHD -> DBX -> amps -> subs

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, I already said as much . Can you tell me how you now connect the crossovers to your pre? You must have some kind of y-cable to split the signals, or have dual outputs on the pre?

It has dual outputs.

 

[Mike-48]

The biggest room influence on the sound is usually in the bass, and it's nigh impossible to treat or correct for that with carpeting or furniture (which can be effective in the mids or treble). The bass usually requires audio-specific treatments like tube traps, bass traps, or tuned membranes. They must be physically large due to the long wavelengths.
That will likely make a big improvement, not only to smoothing the response, but also to making bass sound cleaner/tighter by shortening decay times. Cleaning up the bass can also have the side-effect of revealing more detail in the mids.

To that excellent post, I would add two things.

First, don't underestimate the improvement that can be made in higher frequencies by killing slap echo and early reflections. That can reduce irritation (listening fatigue) considerably.

Second, issues with really deep bass (say < 100 Hz) in a domestic room are almost impossible to treat with physical treatments alone. One runs out of space! I have used multiple subs and DSP successfully to supplement bass traps. The result is position-specific, but an improvement still.

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, I already said as much . Can you tell me how you now connect the crossovers to your pre? You must have some kind of y-cable to split the signals, or have dual outputs on the pre?

Alternative setup could be:

CD player -> spdif -> SHD (-> spdif -> Larvey)-> pre
Pre -> DBX -> amps -> speakers
Pre -> DBX -> amps -> subs

Volume control is on the pre. Has less control on sub EQ, where is it probably more important. You might be able to loop back the sub pre-out back to the SHD and route that to the second set of channels and then again into the sub crossover. That would also give you sub EQ. Just needs a bit more cabling and a bit more effort to set-up. So like this:

Pre -> SHD -> DBX -> amps -> subs

Ok. Understood. I have lots of options. I am going to be looking into this. A concern I have is with return policy. If I do not like what the unit is doing or not doing enough, I hope they have a forgiving return policy since I cannot audition it.

To that excellent post, I would add two things.

First, don't underestimate the improvement that can be made in higher frequencies by killing slap echo and early reflections. That can reduce irritation (listening fatigue) considerably.

Second, issues with really deep bass (say < 100 Hz) in a domestic room are almost impossible to treat with physical treatments alone. One runs out of space! I have used multiple subs and DSP successfully to supplement bass traps. The result is position-specific, but an improvement still.

So I can have immediate improvements in acoustics without adding more room treatment which I do not have room for currently. Interesting.

 

[Chrispy]

LOL ... and expensive. I had it for a few years and then I was cured. Lot of people have it. The purchase of the Jisco was a flare-up of the disease. I am doing much better .... . I have had this system now for many years with only a few necessary acquisitions ( like replacing an ailing Crown amp and small, broken Parasound amp with the 4B SST for the subs and 2B LP pro for the tweeters, both bought used with remaining warranties ) and the Jisco was the only hiccup.

LOL had never heard of the Jisco thing before. Never got too afflicted myself, my grandpa gave me some good advice early on (EE and professional sound guy). Bryston for woofers in a biamped two way?

 

[Tiberius]

LOL had never heard of the Jisco thing before. Never got too afflicted myself, my grandpa gave me some good advice early on (EE and professional sound guy). Bryston for woofers in a biamped two way?

Sorry that wasn't too clear. I have a horizontal tri-amped config. My preamp drives two active DBX 223s two-way crossovers. One signals a Bryston 2B LP pro amp that drives the tweeters and a pair of Stax DA 80M mono-blocks that drive the woofers in my main speakers. The other DBX 223 signals a Bryston 4B SST that drives a pair of subwoofers. I am actually in the middle of looking at trying some acoustic treatment with an SHD DSP and also looking to replace capacitors on the Stax DA 80Ms. They are still functioning great but I am sure the caps by now are deteriorating to an extent. Finding caps for these two 42 year old amps is going to be a challenge. Would you know where I can find some?

 

[Chrispy]

Sorry that wasn't too clear. I have a horizontal tri-amped config. My preamp drives two active DBX 223s two-way crossovers. One signals a Bryston 2B LP pro amp that drives the tweeters and a pair of Stax DA 80M mono-blocks that drive the woofers in my main speakers. The other DBX 223 signals a Bryston 4B SST that drives a pair of subwoofers. I am actually in the middle of looking at trying some acoustic treatment with an SHD DSP and also looking to replace capacitors on the Stax DA 80Ms. They are still functioning great but I am sure the caps by now are deteriorating to an extent. Finding caps for these two 42 year old amps is going to be a challenge. Would you know where I can find some?

Nope no idea on the finding thing. Fancy amp for subs...

 

[Beershaun]

Sorry that wasn't too clear. I have a horizontal tri-amped config. My preamp drives two active DBX 223s two-way crossovers. One signals a Bryston 2B LP pro amp that drives the tweeters and a pair of Stax DA 80M mono-blocks that drive the woofers in my main speakers. The other DBX 223 signals a Bryston 4B SST that drives a pair of subwoofers. I am actually in the middle of looking at trying some acoustic treatment with an SHD DSP and also looking to replace capacitors on the Stax DA 80Ms. They are still functioning great but I am sure the caps by now are deteriorating to an extent. Finding caps for these two 42 year old amps is going to be a challenge. Would you know where I can find some?

maybe @restorer-john can guide you in where to find the best capacitors for your Stax?