My God, Its Full of Snake Oil

[OldHvyMec]

Sounds like the Living Voice Vox Olympian could be your dream speaker

Actually my father was a WE person. He had a pair of 116As and WE wing speakers. I sold them in the 80s to fund a lot of my more current gear. I was a Mcintosh owner at 15 in the late 60s early 70s. I worked my tail off for over a year. 2 MC20 Macs and a Mac30 kit for Klipsch horns and an Imperial sub. It sounded better than the old 45 flathead I had to drive to school. I hated that thing. Stupid stick shift and a foot clutch. Parts were cheaper than a car and the girls didn't mind. If they made the tire rub in the back, that was a no no.

The bottom line is it should sound as beautiful as it looks.

I hope I didn't give any other impression. The Art of the designer I can also appreciate. My point was and is just like you, expensive does not have to equate to personal preference or great equipment if you know what you like and have educated yourself to a point of not being sold a bill of goods.

No one on this earth is going to sell me a 10K DAC or a 15K amp. So you know where I stand with nutso 100K plus anything. I paid 39K for a house 29 years ago.
I sold it for 275K. No dummies in my house.

I seldom buy anything without a test drive or I know what I'm getting already.. There may be a lot of stuff that sounds different, better, worse, or some other fancy term.
The fact that there is a point of "good enough for me", at a pretty reasonable price.

I also look at good sound as an investment too. I have many pieces of vintage Mac. It is tough to beat the sound of a C20 or MX110 and a pair of MC30s or a 240 with just about any older horn. How do they measure? They sound wonderful in a moderately treated room. No one runs out with their fingers in their ears. They keep eatin' their popcorn!!! Purely subjective. I know when my C20s and C11 were recapped/resistors/hexfreds/PS they went from .5 factory to < than .05 THD. Mike Samra's builds. Russian PIO. There is not a boutique cap in any of them. Incredibly fun preamps to use.

My reference system is that C20 and a MC240. BUT I'm currently playing with a tricked Cary SLP-05, a pair of V12Rs, RM30s or RMx Elixirs speakers, Herron, Decware, Mac phono preamps and a few TT. Thoren. It's the first time I haven't used onboard tone control. Currently I'm using mechanical room correction with an active bass system/correction and a servo sub system, 280hz <. The bass system is the same on all my systems. I just move the monitors, they use a passive 2/3 way XO.

I might have spent 10-12k in the last 2 years. But I sold 11 pieces of Marantz valve gear. I'm just having fun because I can. That gear sat for 20+ years
They love it, I don't. I sold it for 7 time what I paid for it. They were just elated, so was I.

I drive a 2003 Toyota Camry and a 1996 EB F150. They are in great shape. Good sound too.

Regards

 

[Blumlein 88]

And my 3.6L Impala is also faster than that Vette, but slower than my SBC Camaro. The Corvette was made many, many decades ago before they had the benefit of advanced numerical simulation and computer technology. Fuel injection systems were crude and mechanically based. Lots of modern cars with their variable valve timing, advanced combustion chamber design, and precise engine control management are quite fast (provided they are not some crap 1.0L turbo or something). A late-model V6 accord with mods is faster than my Camaro off the line, and I don't win those races until I'm over 100 MPH and the eight coffee-can sized pistons in my V8 can work their high RPM magic. Most of these modern engines are working at close to the theoretical limits of what's possible.

If I had a '66 I would still swap it out to an LS and a 6-speed manual. It would be rude not to. Granted its value goes down the tubes at that point, but I still want my fast cars.

Obviously I already knew all that. Totally beside the point.

The point being if someone made a sports car, eschewing all the modern methods and used a plain old V8 with carbs, and old suspensions etc etc, and sold it for a quarter million dollars it is a pointless product today. Yet with mechanical watches that is about what you have in so many expensive modern ones.

Your solution would be to rip out the mechanicals of such a watch and put in a battery powered unit to turn the hands with high precision. Which would also ruin the value. Why buy such a modern version of a watch in the first place?

Not that I mind such cars. My father modified cars like that his whole life. One of his last cars was from the 1930's with lots of modern stuff underneath including an LS motor, 4 wheel disc brakes etc.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Obviously I already knew all that. Totally beside the point.

And I was agreeing with you. Its called a "conversation," but like so many other things that is a lost art that seems to have gone by the wayside in today's modern world.

Your solution would be to rip out the mechanicals of such a watch and put in a battery powered unit to turn the hands with high precision. Which would also ruin the value. Why buy such a modern version of a watch in the first place?

Edit: And there is a difference between a car and a watch, for what its worth. The modern movements will turn the hands a bit more precisely, obviously. For me, the hands still spin around in circles so not much difference. Adding a 150+ HP to a car has a vast improvement in subjective performance, not to mention the thing will start year around without starter fluid, pumping the gas pedal, etc. The more precise watch internals, on the other hand, will just mean you have to adjust the time less. Perhaps that is also stating something painfully obvious, but not all analogies are vis-à-vis.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I'll tell both of you guys. I hate shifting gears. Give me an automatic. I used clutch flights with automatics too. I still hated a clutch in traffic.
My last service truck was a Cat with a 13 speed. I could lock the rear axles up all that crap. I hated it. I liked Allison automatics. Clark, Z, meh!
Rolls and chauffeur is even better. Farm Girl will do.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

I'll tell both of you guys. I hate shifting gears. Give me an automatic. I used clutch flights with automatics too. I still hated a clutch in traffic.
My last service truck was a Cat with a 13 speed. I could lock the rear axles up all that crap. I hated it. I liked Allison automatics. Clark, Z, meh!
Rolls and chauffeur is even better. Farm Girl will do.

Oh god in a truck lol... I always wondered about how much truck drivers hate that in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Can't just coast forward like you can in a car. I've heard good things about Allisons from the guys who have had dually and heavy duty pickups that had them. They seem to be a stout trans. I put my manual in after I did something really stupid. I had a 4L60 I rebuilt that worked well, but later I pulled it to swap a cam, and literally forgot to torque the bellhousing bolts. Trans was not happy with having everything hanging off of the front pump a few hundred miles later. Carnage and fist-fulls of metal shavings in the pan. As a compromise with the 5-speed I set up the PCM to allow the car to take off on hills without needing to get over to the gas right away. The PCM senses the added load and keeps the RPMs up to get the car rolling once the clutch is out. But the auto is nice in that you don't have to constantly be working the clutch and gears, or have to deal with a-holes constantly cutting in front of you once there is more than a single car-length worth of space.

 

[mhardy6647]

Do they run slower in a gravity field?

I'd never thought about it -- but I guess it'd be folly to smuggle one up to the ISS if I ever hitch a ride on Musk's Space-Uber.

 

[Martin]

Out of curiosity, and with apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, what was the method of faking? Volume control manipulation? Different source material?

They were playing digital files. They’d play part of a song, pause it, swap cables, etc., then when they went to resume the song they would “mistakenly” fat finger the iPad and start another song, then with apologies they would restart the original song from a blatantly obvious different file. I saw him do this twice on two different days. It sounded to me like the first version they played was mixed quieter with less impact, the second was obviously mixed hotter with more bass. Shameful.

 

[Dialectic]

They were playing digital files. They’d play part of a song, pause it, swap cables, etc., then when they went to resume the song they would “mistakenly” fat finger the iPad and start another song, then with apologies they would restart the original song from a blatantly obvious different file. I saw him do this twice on two different days. It sounded to me like the first version they played was mixed quieter with less impact, the second was obviously mixed hotter with more bass. Shameful.

That's fraud.

 

[Martin]

That's fraud.

I agree. The audiophools in the room were gobbling it up. I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I agree. The audiophools in the room were gobbling it up. I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

That is why I can't go to an audio show. Lots of snake oil to wade through and I just have not got the will to act like they are decent people. So, I just stay home.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'll tell both of you guys. I hate shifting gears. Give me an automatic. I used clutch flights with automatics too. I still hated a clutch in traffic.
My last service truck was a Cat with a 13 speed. I could lock the rear axles up all that crap. I hated it. I liked Allison automatics. Clark, Z, meh!
Rolls and chauffeur is even better. Farm Girl will do.

I drove tandem dump trucks for a few years back in the 1980s. Near end of doing that they purchased some Volvos with an auto. Much better except the Volvo had the steering wheel so close to the window frame you could easily snag a finger when turning it quickly.

I still generally prefer manual transmissions in cars. I have found 4 or 5 speeds is enough and I don't care for 6 speeds.

 

[jsrtheta]

A guy plugs a different power cord and says this (from the Positive Feedback article just posted):

This is not BS, is something else, more perverse and scary, some sort of sign of a terrifying advent yet to come. xD

Well, that's the negative view. The positive is that this is the ultimate prove of freedom of speech.

"Freedom of speech" doesn't apply to fraud.

 

[Holmz]

I drove tandem dump trucks for a few years back in the 1980s. Near end of doing that they purchased some Volvos with an auto. Much better except the Volvo had the steering wheel so close to the window frame you could easily snag a finger when turning it quickly.
…

Maybe don’t flip off the people cutting you off?

 

[Holmz]

No they work because of a gravity field, and can be adjusted for differences.

It was sort of a trick question with relativity, and yes they run slower.
The fact that they need gravity, makes the question an absurdity.

 

[xaviescacs]

"Freedom of speech" doesn't apply to fraud.

Applies to anything. Talking is talking.

 

[jsrtheta]

Applies to anything. Talking is talking.

Not under the law.

 

[Cbdb2]

A guy plugs a different power cord and says this (from the Positive Feedback article just posted):

This is not BS, is something else, more perverse and scary, some sort of sign of a terrifying advent yet to come. xD

Well, that's the negative view. The positive is that this is the ultimate prove of freedom of speech.

So the guy couldn't tell the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic till he changed power cords, while everyone here can tell the difference thru an AM radio with a 1 inch speaker using a 9v battery.

Moron is the first thing that springs to mind reading the first line of that review. How can anyone believe this stupidity. Why would you even post something so ridiculous unless you know your customers are also morons.

 

[fpitas]

Moron is the first thing that springs to mind reading the first line of that review. How can anyone believe this stupidity. Why would you even post something so ridiculous unless you know your customers are also morons.

Morons with lots of spare cash. Important distinction.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I have found 4 or 5 speeds is enough and I don't care for 6 speeds.

Out of 13 I used 5 unless I was pulling some nitwit out of a ditch or under water. I'm a mechanic.
It just took a tractor to get a working shop in the field. I swapped a few dozen engines in
the field. Rebuilt a few that couldn't be moved to. Hydraulic pumps mainly. They are all heavy.
Talking about it makes my hands hurt. I missed the camaraderie and the good works achieved
but it sure came at a cost to a lot of peoples health. The early days were killers.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Moron is the first thing that springs to mind reading the first line of that review. How can anyone believe this stupidity. Why would you even post something so ridiculous unless you know your customers are also morons.

Morons with lots of spare cash. Important distinction.


Man oh man remind me not to write a silly statement..
I'm glad I build my own cables when my hands permit.

I've seen my share of want-to-be cable mechanics if that is what you want to call them.
I've also seen people with ZERO skin in the game offer some really neat ideas
at no charge to the public. Williewonka cables is a great example.
A pinwheel design is another. They are hard to make and BIG in the case of some pinwheels.

BTW I have ZERO affiliation. I wouldn't sell those cables to anyone. I did however loan
my set to a very close friend because my room is getting a facelift. He died.
Needless to say is was an unexpected loss on two counts. By the time I found out his whole
life was sold at an auction to the highest bidder, my cables included.

My buddy that went to heaven, fell over from an aneurysm and was gone in 30 seconds.
He looked like Adonis at 52. I'm 67, I don't know who that is in the mirror.

May the builders of bad cables NEVER come your way.

Regards

 

[sq225917]

My fave hifi demo ever involved a shop owner dressed in off white with a young emo apprentice dressed in all black. Whenever they wanted to elicit a positive response the shop owner would tell you it sounded better to him, much better, don't you agree? And when they swapped in the low cost part his apprentice would shuffle on like an Adams Family butler and say, well I bet none of you liked that did you?

It was pure pantomime, cheap carnie tricks.