My God, Its Full of Snake Oil

[Beershaun]

W

 

[Beershaun]

T

 

[Beershaun]

F

 

[charleski]

(2) there are punters that will buy it

It's absolutely unsurprising that we've seen a stratospheric rise in the cost of silly-price hifi gee-gaws on the market. They're simply trying to tap into the luxury market composed of people who have more money than they'll ever need and want something to spend it on. It's no coincidence that, for hifi at least, this trend began in the late '80s.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Edit: The above probably states the obvious as a response to a somewhat rhetorical question, but still for me once something works, it will only be replaced due to wear-out or failure. Same with my audio equipment. Objectively its transparent so why replace it? I only care about the music, not what it comes through. If people really had a grasp for this and had no other illusions, the high-end audio market would be dead. Why would you want to buy yet another expensive DAC or speakers when the ones you have already work? I'd bet about 90% of the audio market would simply evaporate

I sure hope 90% of the marked doesn't go away "because". Some people like beautiful thing. Well made things. ART! Some people don't change clothes or bath in the name of what they believe or not. I cater simple to 50% of the people that openly admits they are predisposed to OCD and the other 50% that are in denial. Subjective opinions are all you get in the end. Hopefully YOUR opinion will reflect objective information that was collected correctly by YOU, not me. I do my own testing after I make a decision based on sound information. Not all information has a worth to me, some does, some is just "MORE" of the same (mainly because I don't use it). I take the information I collect and make an informed decision based on my preference. LOOKS are a big thing to many older people. I been looking at ugly for 67 years.
Hear me well. SCREW THAT. I like weird, exotic, non-conventional, but I do have 8 foot ceilings. LOL

I was raised as a kid all over the world. I always loved the old Gothic cathedrals in the western UK. I like Art Deco early and late. Art nuoveau has more differences than likenesses. BUT they all have a commonality I CANNOT put in words. I'm just bewildered by the ART or the actual buildings. Were they needed? I don't know and
don't care. I LIKE UM. I feel a song coming on about a dog named Blue!

My way of getting music to my ears is an ART more than a set of numbers or specifications. I enjoy "listening to music" and LOOKING at what I've done. I surely don't want to mock others if they are thrilled spending money on stereo stuff vs tools to measure them or NOT. I have two shops and a basement full of tools I want to get rid of. The best tool I have is 130db ear muffs. I kid you not. No noise is wonderful too.

I walk around my stereo and imagen what I did, what I'm doing and where I'll wind up after 50+ years. That is the LOVE some have for their stuff and others don't.
I've had MY gear longer than almost any tool I have.. It is a TRUE love affair of a Dr. Who nature. Yes I'm weird. I like eatin' bugs too. So what?
I think we should all have a TARDIS affair or two. HO railroading is a close second right next to eating it seems.

Time to feed the chickens and Junior (the rabbit)

Regards

 

[Killingbeans]

I like Art Deco early and late.

Sounds like the Living Voice Vox Olympian could be your dream speaker

 

[Spkrdctr]

I've never cared for 2001. Feel the same way about the Shining. In both I felt the viewer is being beaten over the head with the points being rather obvious.

Now Dr. Strangelove is on my list of best movies. A Clockwork Orange is good too. I think Full Metal Jacket is better than a Clockwork Orange though Kubrick made several anti-war movies.

Dr Strangelove is a piece of history and art!

 

[Dialectic]

Sounds like the Living Voice Vox Olympian could be your dream speaker

I heard the non-art deco, hipsterized version of those speakers many times at Spiritland in London. They are not good but also not especially bad compared to offerings from Voxativ, Verity, Volti, etc.

I've never cared for 2001. Feel the same way about the Shining. In both I felt the viewer is being beaten over the head with the points being rather obvious.

Now Dr. Strangelove is on my list of best movies. A Clockwork Orange is good too. I think Full Metal Jacket is better than a Clockwork Orange though Kubrick made several anti-war movies.

For movies that are obvious, 2001 and The Shining confused a great many.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I've never carried a watch except when I was in charge of a time clock and there were no cell phones 40 years ago.
I used a Timex analog. I've been in a Walmart one time, that will never happen again . I don't care if they give
stuff away. I went home and took a shower, twice. That was Christmas of 92, looking for lights.
I lit candles and took a chance, best Christmas we ever had. LOL

There is a point where price doesn't matter at 67, it was a near death experience 20 years ago in that parking lot alone.
I'd rather take my chances running into oncoming traffic at peak hours on Highway 5 with the sun in their eyes.
Walmart parking lots are serious war zones in some areas. Granny is always packing around here. Then she uses
Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

My thoughts exactly. I avoid Walmart at all costs.

 

[Killingbeans]

I heard the non-art deco, hipsterized version of those speakers many times at Spiritland in London. They are not good but also not especially bad compared to offerings from Voxativ, Verity, Volti, etc.

Sound doesn't matter. The important thing is that they belong in a Hercule Poirot movie

 

[mhardy6647]

True, they don't. But pre-quartz, that wasn't true: accuracy in watches was difficult to achieve and expensive, and so was prized. Now accuracy is cheap, and so is not prized.

Just like high-end hifi. [EDIT] audio.

 

[mhardy6647]

...But still the fact that accurate timing can be had for a few bucks means we mustn't talk of such things lest the obvious come to light. But I doubt buyers in this segment actually buy their watches [or whatever] with any thoughts of accuracy in mind.

Emphasis - and aside - added.

... and that, boys and girls, is why there are audio brands, sites, and forums that aren't quite like this one.



PS This is my favorite clock in our living room (one of three in here that ticks -- and runs on gravity)

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

I sure hope 90% of the marked doesn't go away "because". Some people like beautiful thing. Well made things. ART! Some people don't change clothes or bath in the name of what they believe or not. I cater simple to 50% of the people that openly admits they are predisposed to OCD and the other 50% that are in denial. Subjective opinions are all you get in the end. Hopefully YOUR opinion will reflect objective information that was collected correctly by YOU, not me. I do my own testing after I make a decision based on sound information. Not all information has a worth to me, some does, some is just "MORE" of the same (mainly because I don't use it). I take the information I collect and make an informed decision based on my preference. LOOKS are a big thing to many older people. I been looking at ugly for 67 years.
Hear me well. SCREW THAT. I like weird, exotic, non-conventional, but I do have 8 foot ceilings. LOL

I was raised as a kid all over the world. I always loved the old Gothic cathedrals in the western UK. I like Art Deco early and late. Art nuoveau has more differences than likenesses. BUT they all have a commonality I CANNOT put in words. I'm just bewildered by the ART or the actual buildings. Were they needed? I don't know and
don't care. I LIKE UM. I feel a song coming on about a dog named Blue!

My way of getting music to my ears is an ART more than a set of numbers or specifications. I enjoy "listening to music" and LOOKING at what I've done. I surely don't want to mock others if they are thrilled spending money on stereo stuff vs tools to measure them or NOT. I have two shops and a basement full of tools I want to get rid of. The best tool I have is 130db ear muffs. I kid you not. No noise is wonderful too.

If that is the case, then we need to drop the pretenses to sound reproduction, and accept that aspect of the equipment is flawed. There is no reason we should not have it both ways. If I were to spend 250k on a system, I expect it to cover all the bases. But a sizable portion of the hi-fi equipment today is nothing but post-modern abstract art that plays music.

If you bought an exotic car, would you be happy with it if it was slower than a new V6 Toyota Camry? I wouldn’t. But it’s clear that there is a lot of equipment today that is just that, and even many speakers will fall into that category. If they are charging you the GDP of some small countries for it, at least they should be expected to design it properly. I like odd, usual, and obscure things as well, but if you decide to be different than at least do it right rather than just trying to fake luxury with a high $$$ price tag. The bottom line is it should sound as beautiful as it looks.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Emphasis - and aside - added.

... and that, boys and girls, is why there are audio brands, sites, and forums that aren't quite like this one.



PS This is my favorite clock in our living room (one of three in here that ticks -- and runs on gravity)

My issue is when things are slathered in features that they don’t legitimately support and claim to do things they don’t actually do. If it’s luxury and aesthetic, then just build it to be luxurious and stop pretending. If companies of all stripes did this, then there would be no issues.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If that is the case, then we need to drop the pretenses to sound reproduction, and accept that aspect of the equipment is flawed. There is no reason we should not have it both ways. If I were to spend 250k on a system, I expect it to cover all the bases. But a sizable portion of the hi-fi equipment today is nothing but post-modern abstract art that plays music.

If you bought an exotic car, would you be happy with it if it was slower than a new V6 Toyota Camry? I wouldn’t. But it’s clear that there is a lot of equipment today that is just that, and even many speakers will fall into that category. If they are charging you the GDP of some small countries for it, at least they should be expected to design it properly. I like odd, usual, and obscure things as well, but if you decide to be different than at least do it right rather than just trying to fake luxury with a high $$$ price tag. The bottom line is it should sound as beautiful as it looks.

A 1966 327 Corvette is slower than a V6 Camry. Not the same experience to drive, and they were made 50 years apart. I understand why that Corvette is more valuable than the Camry based upon the looks, abilities for its time and being old. Now if they sold a similar car for $250k now and it was slower than the V6 Camry it would make no sense and be offensive to me. That is what a plain, mechanical watch that cost huge amounts of money is like to me.

 

[dorakeg]

Long ago watches passed the point where expensive was about accuracy or toughness. Long, long ago. Wristwatches now over say $200 are just jewelry. .

I wouldn't make such sweeping statements. No doubt under normal conditions, even a $10-20 watch will work fine. However in certain extreme conditions (esp. extremely cold weather or depth), specialised watches are required. There are places on earth where temperatures could hit below -50C. Even our phones etc all doesn't work. Our normal batteries won't even work.

In some situations, knowing the time could mean life and death.

 

[Holmz]

...
PS This is my favorite clock in our living room (one of three in here that ticks -- and runs on gravity)
…

Do they run slower in a gravity field?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wouldn't make such sweeping statements. No doubt under normal conditions, even a $10-20 watch will work fine. However in certain extreme conditions (esp. extremely cold weather or depth), specialised watches are required. There are places on earth where temperatures could hit below -50C. Even our phones etc all doesn't work. Our normal batteries won't even work.

In some situations, knowing the time could mean life and death.

There is the most expensive G-Shock from Casio. $450 (discounts are common) which is good to -80 degrees F, plus extreme pressures and electrical voltages etc etc. Plus the majority the overwhelming majority of those very expensive watches are also not good at really low temps. Those expensive watches for performance are bollocks.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Do they run slower in a gravity field?

No they work because of a gravity field, and can be adjusted for differences.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

A 1966 327 Corvette is slower than a V6 Camry. Not the same experience to drive, and they were made 50 years apart. I understand why that Corvette is more valuable than the Camry based upon the looks, abilities for its time and being old. Now if they sold a similar car for $250k now and it was slower than the V6 Camry it would make no sense and be offensive to me. That is what a plain, mechanical watch that cost huge amounts of money is like to me.

And my 3.6L Impala is also faster than that Vette, but slower than my SBC Camaro. The Corvette was made many, many decades ago before they had the benefit of advanced numerical simulation and computer technology. Fuel injection systems were crude and mechanically based. Lots of modern cars with their variable valve timing, advanced combustion chamber design, and precise engine control management are quite fast (provided they are not some crap 1.0L turbo or something). A late-model V6 accord with mods is faster than my Camaro off the line, and I don't win those races until I'm over 100 MPH and the eight coffee-can sized pistons in my V8 can work their high RPM magic. Most of these modern engines are working at close to the theoretical limits of what's possible.

If I had a '66 I would still swap it out to an LS and a 6-speed manual. It would be rude not to. Granted its value goes down the tubes at that point, but I still want my fast cars.