Modern versus vintage audio equipment

[Tansen]

My audiophile journey began with a onkyo home theatre 5.1 thx system in 2008 as I was not happy with tv speakers. Then I upgraded to an anthem avr mrx 710 and Adium prestige 95 speakers. I was happy for over 6years till1 I discovered open back headphones and chi dac/amp. More recently I discovered vintage gear.

i have brought infinity kappa 7 and infinity bookshelf refer speakers. i am very impressed with the sound of these. Barely any difference with my paradigms other than their bass. I am seriously 2 considering disposing offf my. Perrin speakers and getting a bunch of old speakers including amp/pre amp. Other than law of diminishing returns for pricier gear you buy, is vintage audio just built a lot better.


what am I not getting here?

 

[restorer-john]

The Kappas you have pictured have non-original dome midranges.

They appear to be Philips AD-0210 or 211.

 

[DVDdoug]

When CDs were introduced that was a HUGE jump in home audio sound quality.

When solid state electronics were introduced in the 1960s, power amplifiers no longer needed an output transformer and this made it cheaper and easier to get good quality. By the 1970s most hi-fi equipment was getting very good. Semiconductors got better and it became cheaper to make higher power amplifiers. More recently, class-D amplifiers have brought the cost per watt down but the sound quality (noise distortion, and frequency response) has generally been good for a long time.

Higher amplifier power also means that speakers don't have to be as sensitive and by sacrificing sensitivity/efficiency, speakers can (potentially) be made smaller or designed with better frequency response.

Speakers haven't changed much since the 1960's either. Most speakers are still 2-way or 3-way, sealed or ported, systems. There are some "new" materials but the speakers aren't necessarily better. The Thiele /Small research along with the easy availability of computers made speaker performance easier to predict and made it easier to design good speakers. There were good speakers in the past but it required more trial-and-error, and there were lots of bad speakers too (lots of boomy 'bass reflex" speakers).

With home theater, the STYLE of speakers changed with small speakers plus a subwoofer becoming more common. You don't see as many large speakers on the market and I see lots of speakers with multiple smaller woofers and very few 12 or 15-inch woofers (except subwoofers).

 

[Tansen]

The Kappas you have pictured have non-original dome midranges.

They appear to be Philips AD-0210 or 211.

hawk eyes! Yup-Philips AD-0210. Was told they are decent. Not sure if original domes were better? New to vintage audio.

 

[Sal1950]

With home theater, the STYLE of speakers changed with small speakers plus a subwoofer becoming more common. You don't see as many large speakers on the market and I see lots of speakers with multiple smaller woofers and very few 12 or 15-inch woofers (except subwoofers).

Due mainly to "wife acceptance factor" controlling purchasing decisions.
Add in snake-oil marketing for many small speakers and you hit the bottom line.
Quality levels being equal, bigger is still always better.

 

[Chazz6]

Vintage designs may be good when re-realized in current equipment. For example, the so-called BBC monitor speakers are better when incarnated in current products like Spendor or Rogers than the vintage products that have survived.

 

[Sal1950]

I am seriously 2 considering disposing offf my. Perrin speakers and getting a bunch of old speakers including amp/pre amp. Other than law of diminishing returns for pricier gear you buy, is vintage audio just built a lot better.

A number of questions here,
Are they built better, NO. Build quality is always a variable, some great, some not so great. Homework required.

Most modern gear will deliver overall better sound and offer a much higher reliability factor.
If you enjoy playing with, tweaking, repairing, etc the older gear, KOOL.
I did for many years, I just no longer have the patience.
I do still run 5 1990s Adcom power amps in my multich rig and so far no problems.
But if they should start a domino effect of failure, I will just replace them with some new class D build.
It would probably save me a bunch on my electric bill.

 

[Tansen]

Due mainly to "wife acceptance factor" controlling purchasing decisions.
Add in snake-oil marketing for many small speakers and you hit the bottom line.
Quality levels being equal, bigger is still always better.

After using paradigms for 8 years I can still sell them for 50% price and buy 2-3 sets of big bulky speakers!

WAF can cost some 10000+ or more dollars!

 

[Sal1950]

After using paradigms for 8 years I can still sell them for 50% price and buy 2-3 sets of big bulky speakers!

WAF can cost some 10000+ or more dollars!

Sorry. I'm missing the point of your post?

 

[Tansen]

A number of questions here,
Are they built better, NO. Build quality is always a variable, some great, some not so great. Homework required.

Most modern gear will deliver overall better sound and offer a much higher reliability factor.
If you enjoy playing with, tweaking, repairing, etc the older gear, KOOL.
I did for many years, I just no longer have the patience.
I do still run 5 1990s Adcom power amps in my multich rig and so far no problems.
But if they should start a domino effect of failure, I will just replace them with some new class D build.
It would probably save me a bunch on my electric bill.

Reliability is very important- completely agree. But would t apply to speakers as much as amp/ preamp and phono. Again more of a question asi have no experience and a newbie to vintage gear. Thx

 

[Sal1950]

Reliability is very important- completely agree. But would t apply to speakers as much as amp/ preamp and phono. Again more of a question asi have no experience and a newbie to vintage gear. Thx

Tubes no, SS mostly.
But sometimes even more.
I've had the foam surround of woofers turn to dust in 10 - 15 years.
Capacitors in crossovers can deteriorate in all equally.
One bad overload of power from the amp due to accident or failure can destroy a valued speaker.
You roll the dice and take you chances. LOL

 

[Tansen]

Sorry. I'm missing the point of your post?

Vintage audio-Extreme value for money if you have a wife/partner who agrees with you on sound quality Over nice looking sleek speakers which cost a ton.

 

[Sal1950]

Vintage audio-Extreme value for money if you have a wife/partner who agrees with you on sound quality Over nice looking sleek speakers which cost a ton.

Sure, quality used gear will always be better value, at least initially.
Down the road, in the big picture, it can definitely be a roll of the dice.
The joy of owning/collecting vintage gear is a whole another subject.

 

[Chrispy]

Reliability is hard to judge in advance for new gear. Just no track record....but you can be a contributor. OTOH relatively reliable brands can alleviate that thought. Speakers are generally more reliable and able to weather the years over changing specs/codecs in pre-pros/avrs. Phono hasn't changed in eons really, and compliance is relatively easy to get to depending on cartridge type and spec (or just not bother IMO). Vintage isn't always the same thing as simply old....

Reliability is very important- completely agree. But would t apply to speakers as much as amp/ preamp and phono. Again more of a question asi have no experience and a newbie to vintage gear. Thx

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I would not pay much for old kit. If you can pick up old kit at 5% to 10% of original prices, then you can take risks and dabble for fun.

There have been some excellent designs in the past, some of which can perhaps outperform current products, but it's potluck whether the thing you buy hasn't been tinkered with, badly repaired or just suffering from age (potentiometers, switches, relays, some capacitors, speaker surrounds, ferrofluid etc )

 

[Sal1950]

There have been some excellent designs in the past, some of which can perhaps outperform current products,

I can't think of a case where that is true unless the current product's design is badly flawed for some reason. Equal sure, outperform not that I can think of.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I can't think of a case where that is true unless the current product's design is badly flawed for some reason. Equal sure, outperform not that I can think of.

Hmm, perhaps hyperbole on my part

 

[HoweSound]

hawk eyes! Yup-Philips AD-0210. Was told they are decent. Not sure if original domes were better? New to vintage audio.

I have the Philips AD2110 (square faceplate version) in my home made 3-way system. They are a reliable and decent performer: