Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

[Thomas savage]

People who actually do that are corner cases. I certainly don't bother! But unfortunately there is valid reason to do so-- the lack of standards in the music recording industry that Floyd Toole has been talking about for ages -- the 'Circle of Confusion'. It's a real thing, as any listener can hear. (It's also why he advocates old fashioned broadband 'tone controls' as a quick'n'dirty way to address some recording EQ problems)



Hmm, I think all that does is illustrate that home audio, which depends on devices as crude as electromechanical transducers, is always a compromise.

It certainly doesn't help when things sound shit by design .

I spend loads of time wondering about recordings that seemed painfully shite and thinking there must be something wrong with my hifi .

Stupid yes but most of us are at the very least dumb but thankfully only dangerous to ourselves .., unless elected to office...

 

[watchnerd]

Hmm, I think all that does is illustrate that home audio, which depends on devices as crude as electromechanical transducers, is always a compromise.

Right.

But some people seem to think that, if they try hard enough, and spend enough money, using crude electromechanical devices, they'll "get there".

As opposed to recognizing it's all deeply flawed and if you can come close to reproducing what the mixing and mastering engineers heard, that's a good point to settle down, decide it's good enough, and enjoy tunes.

 

[watchnerd]

People just want to believe there's more , I blew a ton on that and while reading things like you have mentioned here and many times before , well I just ignored it as it didn't seem to hold true in the majority of hifi press and community as I saw it.

Chasing the dragon, man.

Gotta get that next upgrade high.

 

[Thomas savage]

Chasing the dragon, man.

Gotta get that next upgrade high.

Until a man can reliably and safely increase his ' size ' this is likely to be a dominant force for society.

 

[Thomas savage]

It could be worse ya'll could be on a drywall page reading arguments between men about whats best, to finish by hand or machine , with no self awareness or sense of humour whatsoever.. or indeed understanding about job circumstances and requirements.

" the look on your Mrs face id say she needs to be finished by hand "

Seems identity politics and crisis/ desperation dominates too many minds .

 

[Mihalis]

If all you have done is keeping all equipment the same, but just switched the DAC, it is entirely possible to hear differences between DAC.

The reason is simple. DAC don't all output the same voltages when being fed same digital signals.

I have done many voltage measurements and blind tests for the two DAC I bought late last year. Using them as-is, differences between DAC are audible.

But, once I voltage matched the DAC (using Topping L30 to increase voltage output of E30 at 120 Hz), and both DAC have similar voltages from 120 Hz to 5 kHz, it then became practically impossible to distinguish them.

So keep this voltage differences in mind when doing your blind tests.

You can see my voltage measurements at
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/post-622482

Very cool. Well yes the Msb is also a preamp and produces different voltages up to 12v so once I borrow other dacs I can do that. M.

 

[steve59]

We have at least two people right here in this thread about discouraging 'golden ear' nonsense, claiming to hear DAC differences.

It never ends. And it's so fucking tiresome, given that there are real, audibly substantial improvements to be made in most any home audio environment, that have NOTHING to do with DACs, amps, and other commodity gear. The game is all speakers and rooms at this point (except for the audio nostalgists still spinning their 'vynils').

And those implying that I and others who don't buy the subjectivist line haven't heard enough 'resolving' systems or haven't heard/played enough acoustic instruments, can take a hike off Self-Serving Presumption Bluff.

I like that 'take a hike off a self serving presumption bluff'. I wouldn't presume to know more about you than you know about yourself, especially when it comes to the things you like, your favorite ice cream topping. lol

 

[steve59]

I don't hear anyone suggesting changing dac's is more important than proper room treatment someone just made that up for their own purpose. It clearly gives you great comfort to look down a me/my kind-whatever box you've put me into so you can laugh at my stupidity. Happy new year.

 

[Mihalis]

I always connect my equipments to power conditioners (Furman Elite 15i), so I think power noise might not be the cause. Mostly is me, or my amps need more hours to warm up before performing their best.

Many amps (solid state) I know tend to reach temperature stability in 30-45 minutes. FYI.

I don't hear anyone suggesting changing dac's is more important than proper room treatment someone just made that up for their own purpose. It clearly gives you great comfort to look down a me/my kind-whatever box you've put me into so you can laugh at my stupidity. Happy new year.

That is correct. After having built the room and bought / placed / measured the speakers that best achieve my goal, I focus on every other aspect until I either know it doesn’t matter or until I improve it. As dacs have analogue sections and as I think I hear differences in double blind tests I will continue the research until I am convinced either way. I am intrigued by the measurements and claim here and would be delighted to find out that indeed they don’t. I have no dog in the race.

Vinyl is a different type of pursuit. To me it was a great way to have available performances that may not be accessible digitally. The process itself is fun and there is some user involvement. The audible results can be very pleasing. As digital libraries become so available / cheap / complete and as my wife wants to reclaim the living room, maybe this will change.

That all this was attacked with impatience, rudeness and coarse language is disappointing. It is also proof that it isn’t the resolution of their systems that is lacking but that of their brains.

I have faced such buffoonery and fanaticism from the other side of the argument also (those sure that fiber optic cables are directional). You see, fanatics of all convictions, tend to converge at the bottom of the “gray” circle that all these arguments sit on. Both fanatics are sure, certain and immovable irrespective of what new facts they may be offered. Well, as usual, much smarter people have commented on all this already

“If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on you” (Feynman)

Oh wait, one more:

“If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science.”

M.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Many amps (solid state) I know tend to reach temperature stability in 30-45 minutes. FYI.
......

Yeah, the stereo amps I have are Parasound A21 and A23. Maybe A21 (~first 10 watts class A) takes a little bit longer than 30 minutes.....or it is all me due to both psychological and physical changes throughout the day.... : )

 

[egellings]

Unless the experiment was not correctly done and wrong conclusions were drawn...

 

[Head_Unit]

Often, they get mad when we question their golden hearing

Yes especially about cables, where a totally non-blind swap results in rapturous audio ecstasy...until someone suggests it might just be expectational bias. OMG, the FURY that can erupt! "I KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - gee, seriously, why are you SO upset at the idea that it *might* be expectation bias? (I do not believe it's always about the money. It often seems to be that the idea of expectation bias poses some fundamental challenge to the person's very self-image or something).

 

[VintageFlanker]

OMG, the FURY that can erupt! "I KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The alternative version is: That's because your system isn't revealing enough.

 

[tw99]

The alternative version is: That's because your system isn't revealing enough.

I just had that on another forum where I questioned the guy claiming the improved sound quality of WAV files over FLAC

 

[Booker]

When JPLAY (scam software player) was starting. I saw a discussion on their forum, that formatting a USB stick in different allocation unit size sounds better.

 

[bo_knows]

We have at least two people right here in this thread about discouraging 'golden ear' nonsense, claiming to hear DAC differences.

It never ends. And it's so fucking tiresome, given that there are real, audibly substantial improvements to be made in most any home audio environment, that have NOTHING to do with DACs, amps, and other commodity gear. The game is all speakers and rooms at this point (except for the audio nostalgists still spinning their 'vynils').

And those implying that I and others who don't buy the subjectivist line haven't heard enough 'resolving' systems or haven't heard/played enough acoustic instruments, can take a hike off Self-Serving Presumption Bluff.

This: "The game is all speakers and rooms at this point "

 

[highpurityusbcable]

When JPLAY (scam software player) was starting. I saw a discussion on their forum, that formatting a USB stick in different allocation unit size sounds better.

The whole discussion was truly fascinating...Good to see not much has changed since 2011.

 

[Zensō]

Here, I fixed it for you.

The whole discussion was truly fascinating...Good Sad to see not much has changed since 2011.

 

[Robin L]

Yes especially about cables, where a totally non-blind swap results in rapturous audio ecstasy...until someone suggests it might just be expectational bias. OMG, the FURY that can erupt! "I KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - gee, seriously, why are you SO upset at the idea that it *might* be expectation bias? (I do not believe it's always about the money. It often seems to be that the idea of expectation bias poses some fundamental challenge to the person's very self-image or something).

What's being heard is "your hearing isn't good enough to detect the difference, you don't have "golden ears". One can think they have golden ears and have hearing damage. One can be told they have golden ears and have hearing damage. And no adult can hear a 30khz tone anyway. Most microphones used in commercial recordings crap out above 15khz. Most stereos crap out below 40hz. Any potential changes dues to wire would be inaudible save in the rare cases of gross impedance mismatch [have experienced that, the difference between interconnects was easy to measure in that case].

 

[Katji]

Golden ears...If anyone did actually come claiming to have "golden ears," who knows what the reactions might be?