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Low $100s to $1000s. Is there a significant difference for home audio? Why pay more?

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afinepoint

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In the case of headphones, really the main measurement we care about is frequency response, with distortion sometimes being important. A good measurement in frequency response is quite audible, especially when it comes to headphones which often have large deviations from ideal.


There are many types of hearing loss, but the one that's very common and comes on with age is loss of high-frequencies... but you can still pick out quite a bit of detail without hearing anything above 10khz. Also, critical listening skills and raw hearing ability are two different things. You don't need (especially) good ears to be a good listener.

IMO these are the drivers of a headphone's price, in order from most to least important:

1. Distribution channel (dealers / retailers automatically add about 100% to the price)
2. Brand reputation / recognition / marketing (Audeze sells for more than Bose, sells for more than Anker, almost regardless of performance or features)
3. Craftsmanship and/or aesthetics. Beats were a fashion item and cost 2-3x the direct competition in terms of sound. Boutique headphones like ZMF or Grado command a premium because of the materials, look, and build quality.
4. Actual performance / sound quality
5. Warranty / customer service
6. Build quality / durability

Any given person will probably rate these in a different order. At ASR we consider #4 as the most important. However, based on my past experience, if I were putting out a new headphone, I would "draft pick" these items in this order to maximize my chances of success on the market. You need to check the first 3 boxes before people will bother to listen to your headphones in the first place.
Due to turmoil and disbelief in another thread I had my hearing tested. I'm in my sixties and mine begins rolling off around 11 to 12k with a steep decline at 16k. This is after 31 years in a power station. Goes to show hearing can be preserved.

I agree with your #4 comment. But with tunability (did i spell that right) and such is the difference from mid to most expensive clearly heard? The features are lost and adds to costs if not heard. If tuning does make a clear distinction I'm with the $$$$ guys. Not that I'd buy one.

I'm not surprised Amir has a very expensive set. He does testing for us.
 

Ron Texas

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That McIntosh car amp @amirm reviewed seemed to do quite well so car radios can be rather good.
I have a very nice sounding Alpine system in my Wrangler.
 

DonR

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I have a very nice sounding Alpine system in my Wrangler.
When you think about, car interiors are better than most people's living rooms. Leather seating, air-conditioning, surround-sound music, panoramic windows.
 

Ron Texas

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When you think about, car interiors are better than most people's living rooms. Leather seating, air-conditioning, surround-sound music, panoramic windows.
Noise can be a problem, especially in the Wrangler.
 
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afinepoint

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Lots of good advice and insights here. Much appreciated.

I stay busy and do need to pick up a high performing Bluetooth set. I know Bluetooth is not lossless so there's one compromise right out the gate. I planned to test some Sony XM5s and Bowers and Wilkins PX8s. Perhaps Focal Bathys. And of course look at suggestions here.
 
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Ron Texas

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Isn't there a hybrid or electric version? I guess those tires still make a racket though.
It's wind noise mainly. The off road capable tires on the Rubicon add to the racket. Half of the Wranglers sold since last year are plug in Hybrids, but they only run 21 miles on their battery after which the Italian built turbo 4 cylinder provides power. The turbo is somewhat noisier than the NA V6.
 

kemmler3D

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Lots of good advice and insights here. Much appreciated.

I stay busy and do need to pick up a high performing Bluetooth set. I know Bluetooth is not lossless so there's one compromise right out the gate. I planned to test some Sony XM5s and Bowers and Wilkins PX8s. Perhaps Focal Bathys. And of course look at suggestions here.
Might be controversial but I've really liked the offerings in both of those lines. I have a set of XM4s and we used to have a set of P7s in the office that I thought sounded very nice.

As always, headphone sound is very personal, but ANC is not, and on the Sony cans it is about as good as it gets these days.
 

DonR

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It's wind noise mainly. The off road capable tires on the Rubicon add to the racket. Half of the Wranglers sold since last year are plug in Hybrids, but they only run 21 miles on their battery after which the Italian built turbo 4 cylinder provides power. The turbo is somewhat noisier than the NA V6.
Italian 4 cyl turbo... yikes!
 

Ron Texas

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Italian 4 cyl turbo... yikes!
It's actually a pretty solid engine. I drove one for a week in Hawaii. They can sound a bit tinny under load.
 

Keith_W

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When you think about, car interiors are better than most people's living rooms. Leather seating, air-conditioning, surround-sound music, panoramic windows.

You are more likely to die a violent death in your car than in your living room though!
 

Blake

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Others have already hit on the key points here (lack of price/performance correlation, diminishing returns when they do correlate, etc.), but I'll add my own experience just to highlight how personal these decisions are.

I have some open backs (HD 6XX and Grado SR225e, the latter of which I plan to sell), but background noise is pretty common in my home, so my use case dictates closed backs most of the time. But I've found closed backs under $500 to be kind of dicey, at least the ones that I've tried. I think the Sennheiser HD 569 is pretty terrible (but I do have it), and, while I mostly like my Beyerdynamic DT 770, it can sound kind of boomy/muddy on the low end. To be fair, there are others in that price range and lower that I've read decent things about, but I haven't tried them myself.

At CanJam 2-1/2 years ago I tried all kinds of things and came away impressed with DCA and Audeze. I liked the Stealth, but there was no way I was spending $4000 without a divorce. :) The Aeon Noire was decent, too, but $900 was still pushing it... like, a lot. And Audeze? I loved most things of theirs I tried. I apparently like a lot about their "house sound" and, while I do use EQ religiously, I like the idea of a headphone whose sound I can also enjoy stock. But Audeze doesn't exactly make much in the "affordable" range, and the one that really had me interested was the LCD-XC ($1300, or $1800 for the deluxe kit). As much as I loved it, there was no way I could justify spending that much.

Shortly after that, I ended up getting the DCA Aeon RT Closed. $500 also felt like a stretch, but I've gotten what I wanted out of it, and I'm glad I spent the money. I've been mostly happy with it, especially with EQ (which I feel it needs to truly sound great).

But I still had that LCD-XC on my brain. And during Audeze's 2023 Black Friday sale, I managed to snag one (the deluxe kit, too!) for $800. That was an even bigger stretch for me, but Audeze sales are such a rare thing that I couldn't resist. I have no regrets. I love them!

But is the LCD-XC $300 (or $800) better than the Aeon RT? In terms of stock sound, I'd say subjectively yes, at least for me (keeping in mind that my LCD-XC is the 2021 revision which is much better tuned out of the box than prior versions). But with EQ? Honestly I'm not sure. Probably not. I want to say the Audeze has more impactful bass than the Aeon RT no matter what I try to do with EQ, but that's subjective and absolutely not a hill I'm willing to die on. :p My post-CanJam desire for the LCD-XC may still be coloring my perceptions. In any event, I'm keeping both!

Anyway, my point is this: Look at how many things had to line up there that were purely personal, subjective decisions. In terms of objective performance, I know from this site that both of those headphones respond very well to EQ. The LCD-XC stock sound corresponds better to my personal taste, but that's purely subjective. They had to go on sale at a substantial discount for me to be even tempted, let alone buy; again, subjective (my view of their value to me). And maybe most important of all, I had a chance to spend some quality time auditioning both. Oh, and I know I'm okay with the weight of the LCD-XC, which is otherwise a negative for that model!
 
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afinepoint

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Focal Bathy seems to have restricted distributors. Has anyone had to deal with warranty issues or customer service? I've read the batteries last 3-4 years and parts replacement may be problematic.
 

kemmler3D

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the batteries last 3-4 years and parts replacement may be problematic.
Looks like the battery is not user-replaceable, which is true of almost all wireless headphones, sadly.

In practice it might not be very hard to replace if you know how to solder and you're comfortable taking the headphones apart. It's probably just two leads, and the battery specs are typically printed on the battery itself, and it's not hard to find replacements for that type of battery. But I've also seen wireless headphones that can't be disassembled without destroying them. So, YMMV.

IIRC the only headphone I've seen with a properly replaceable battery was the B&O H7-9 series. I got a chance to hear them (IIRC) at CES and unfortunately, hated the sound immediately. They're also pretty expensive for what they are. I think they are also on-ear, not over-ear, so the ANC won't be very effective.
 
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afinepoint

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Yeah, I'd plan on a 3 year ride then repeat or buy something new.
 
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