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Loudness war has invaded the audiophile streaming services.

Wombat

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My AV receiver can decode Multichannel DSD. For Physical SACDs I use my Sony UDP-X800 which outputs the DSD through HDMI. For DSD files I can use the receivers usb input or use my players usb input. My receiver is the Sony STR-DN1080. Its got a built in native DSD chip.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:
 
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ThatM1key

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Its not all bad. Kenny G's older albums haven't been affected by the loudness, only the newer ones are. I would test Qobuz too but I don't have a subscription with them anymore.

My Physical Copy
My.JPG

Tidal:
Tidal1.JPG

Deezer:
Deezer1.JPG

Youtube (Direct OPUS):
opus.JPG




My Copy:
02. Kenny G - Forever in Love.jpg

Tidal:
02 - Kenny G - Forever in Love.flactidal.jpg

Deezer:
02. Kenny G - Forever in Love.flacdeezer.jpg

Youtube (Direct Opus):
Forever in Love - YouTube_2.jpg



Links:
Tidal: https://tidal.com/browse/album/673610
Deezer: https://www.deezer.com/en/album/116410
Youtube:

Conclusion
There is some good cd's floating around on these platforms but they are hard to find. I wish companies would offer actually different versions of albums instead of having 4 of the same brickwall versions of the same album. Luckily there is only 1 version of this album on each platform and its really good. Even the free version has good DR.
 

Sal1950

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Hi-res from tape is a different animal. For some it's an issue, for others not.
There's no such thing as HiRes from an analog tape. ;)
My problem with those upscaled SACD's is that people jack the price of them to high prices just because there "SACD" and the fact its just a waste of a upscale.
That's for the crowd that buys into the claims that resampling PCM to DSD returns better sound, sure.
How do you even listen to multichannel SACD when the players (what I saw at least) don't have highres digital outputs or multichannel outputs?
That was done by the dirty rats to protect SACD's from being digitally copied like CDs.
You use HDMI to get the hirez stream into your AVR.
Their anti copy scheme is Ancient history now.
 
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ThatM1key

ThatM1key

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I still dont like how you cant send dsd to a av receiver using a pc. At least I can do actual dsd out of my receiver but I lose dsp. My old 2008 onkyo claimed to "dsd" but all it did was secretly convert to pcm because it no chips to decode natively. Didnt know that until I read the manual oof.

My Sony:
sony.JPG

*Plays dsd if you enable the "native dsd" feature otherwise it converts to pcm but you can use the dsp options

My Onkyo:
dsd.JPG
.
That *1 means for all dsd inputs regardless if its in direct mode or not.
 
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ThatM1key

ThatM1key

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I found more tidal bullshit.
1tidal.JPG

I'll talk about each one

Standard: Techinally there not wrong but they don't tell you that there's files going under 320kbps. AAC is better than MP3 thats a plus I guess.
aac.JPG


Lossless: The "1411kbps" is the standard of wav not flac, I don't know whos behind this marketing. Techinally there is fake flacs running around on Tidal as we seen before.

Master: I believe Tidal is starting be ashamed of having MQA, they don't even say it anymore. Techinally its a lossy codec and its literally being broken up. All MQA I've came across barely make it to 2000kbps. I have no idea where there getting that fucking 9216kbps figure from.

There is one thing they didn't talk about on there home page: Dolby Atmos.
Tidal using DD+ for Dolby Atmos, I wouldn't mind that if the mixes were good, there not. They felt like cheezy 5.1 upscales (like my alan jackson dvd). They barely used my Height speakers. Techinally DA (packing into a DD+) stream should be possible with chromecasting but its not and I don't know why. With my receiver its only gets the hifi version. Luckily I can get the direct files so I'm not worried. The problem is that you can't send a Dolby Atmos (any kind) over HDMI using Tidal (on pc) and thats stupid. Tidal does not plan to add that feature, so you have to go and out and buy a firestick, firecube or apple tv. The whole Dolby Atmos music thing reminds me of DTS 5.1 CDs and MP3Surround. Its pretty much a gimmick at this point. The movie side of DA is amazing. If you want a true DA experience you gotta watch the John Wick movies.
 

L5730

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Its not all bad. Kenny G's older albums haven't been affected by the loudness, only the newer ones are. I would test Qobuz too but I don't have a subscription with them anymore.

My Physical Copy
View attachment 108256
Tidal:
View attachment 108257
Deezer:
View attachment 108258
Youtube (Direct OPUS):
View attachment 108264



My Copy:
View attachment 108260
Tidal:
View attachment 108259
Deezer:
View attachment 108261
Youtube (Direct Opus):
View attachment 108266


Links:
Tidal: https://tidal.com/browse/album/673610
Deezer: https://www.deezer.com/en/album/116410
Youtube:

Conclusion
There is some good cd's floating around on these platforms but they are hard to find. I wish companies would offer actually different versions of albums instead of having 4 of the same brickwall versions of the same album. Luckily there is only 1 version of this album on each platform and its really good. Even the free version has good DR.

Perhaps there could be a database somewhere that collects all of the "only one digital version" releases.
Whilst that Kenny G album sounds awfully dated (to me) with those synth lines and usual-name hired singers, it does have a certain clarity which lacking in a lot of material.

OK, so Fleetwood Mac "Tango In The Night" there is one CD, which was as cheaper than a couple of beers in supermarkets a few years ago.
Is there only one version of Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly" CD?, I think so, but there are DVD-A and other digital variants.
It seems very few releases exist that have one CD version, and haven't been goosed with an updated 'modern' remastering. Quite a few have more than one period CD mastering, but they aren't dynamically neutered, just that one maybe from a higher gen. tape source.
 

mSpot

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All MQA I've came across barely make it to 2000kbps. I have no idea where there getting that fucking 9216kbps figure from.
They are including the 2X to 8X (lossy) expansion from MQA unfold/upsample.
 

dmac6419

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I found more tidal bullshit.
View attachment 113506
I'll talk about each one

Standard: Techinally there not wrong but they don't tell you that there's files going under 320kbps. AAC is better than MP3 thats a plus I guess.
View attachment 113509

Lossless: The "1411kbps" is the standard of wav not flac, I don't know whos behind this marketing. Techinally there is fake flacs running around on Tidal as we seen before.

Master: I believe Tidal is starting be ashamed of having MQA, they don't even say it anymore. Techinally its a lossy codec and its literally being broken up. All MQA I've came across barely make it to 2000kbps. I have no idea where there getting that fucking 9216kbps figure from.

There is one thing they didn't talk about on there home page: Dolby Atmos.
Tidal using DD+ for Dolby Atmos, I wouldn't mind that if the mixes were good, there not. They felt like cheezy 5.1 upscales (like my alan jackson dvd). They barely used my Height speakers. Techinally DA (packing into a DD+) stream should be possible with chromecasting but its not and I don't know why. With my receiver its only gets the hifi version. Luckily I can get the direct files so I'm not worried. The problem is that you can't send a Dolby Atmos (any kind) over HDMI using Tidal (on pc) and thats stupid. Tidal does not plan to add that feature, so you have to go and out and buy a firestick, firecube or apple tv. The whole Dolby Atmos music thing reminds me of DTS 5.1 CDs and MP3Surround. Its pretty much a gimmick at this point. The movie side of DA is amazing. If you want a true DA experience you gotta watch the John Wick movies.
Than pay for Qobuz, or something else,stop F ing complaining, there's no gun to your head now is there.
 

Atanasi

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They are including the 2X to 8X (lossy) expansion from MQA unfold/upsample.
The next question is why they don't count the lossy expansion of AAC into CD-quality PCM similarly.
 
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ThatM1key

ThatM1key

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Than pay for Qobuz, or something else,stop F ing complaining, there's no gun to your head now is there.
I would get Qobuz but as you see, both platforms having terrible DR versions of music I like.
 

L5730

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Streaming platforms will have internal loudness scanning and user side options to auto level the music on playback ala ReplayGain.
What they won't do is to go all the way through all versions and masterings of material and source the very best, or commission special premium remasters (think MFSL, Audio Fidelity) for their platform.

By and large you are going to get the latest remaster or the typical one just before it.

HDDs are cheap. Most pre-owned CDs are cheap. A Raspberry Pi based NAS shouldn't be too expensive to build. Make your own streaming platform at home.
 

dmac6419

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Streaming platforms will have internal loudness scanning and user side options to auto level the music on playback ala ReplayGain.
What they won't do is to go all the way through all versions and masterings of material and source the very best, or commission special premium remasters (think MFSL, Audio Fidelity) for their platform.

By and large you are going to get the latest remaster or the typical one just before it.

HDDs are cheap. Most pre-owned CDs are cheap. A Raspberry Pi based NAS shouldn't be too expensive to build. Make your own streaming platform at home.
That's what I did and I use Jriver Media Center to stream my music no matter where in the world I'm at.
 

earlevel

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Another session coming up—for the Dynamic Range Day Award (best album):

 

Taketheflame

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The thing with streaming is that you're at the mercy of whichever masters the record labels send to the streaming services.

Sometimes it's the original master (more likely from a less popular release/something never reissued in my experience), but there are also some crappy loudness war style remasters too, which seems to be more common with titles that have been re-released many times over the years.

Not all remasters are bad of course. But sometimes the only way around a bad loudness-war master is to get ahold of an original issue CD (or FLAC rip of it). Of course, all bets are off if it's something that never had a good mastering job in the first place.
 

Hg201

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ime with Spotify you have the choice between masters of famous titles at least
Can you explain where and how to find and choose this information in Spotify?
Perhaps you could give an example of a track or album?
 
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ThatM1key

ThatM1key

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Michal Jackson - Billie Jean has 6 versions on SPotify for example. from 6 albums
Like the poison album just because there's different versions doesn't mean there different. There the same files just copied and pasted. If the song is featured in a different album, its mostly likely a different version of that song.
 

dasdoing

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Like the poison album just because there's different versions doesn't mean there different. There the same files just copied and pasted. If the song is featured in a different album, its mostly likely a different version of that song.

they are diferent. the song apeared on various "greatest hits" albuns after the original album. some are even called "remaster". take one of those remaster version and compare only the first seconds to the Thriller album version. they are very obviously diferent
 
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