Looking for recommendations on a portable dac/amp for Hd650’s

[Not dave]

Hi ZolaIII
I have seen this one on Amazon. It states 25mW 500Ω or 500mW at 16Ω. It also states that it is suitable for the HD650,
As its on Amazon its an easy return for me.
Thoughts?

 

[ZolaIII]

Hi ZolaIII
I have seen this one on Amazon. It states 25mW 500Ω or 500mW at 16Ω. It also states that it is suitable for the HD650,
As its on Amazon its an easy return for me.
Thoughts?

Read the review hire, read costumers opinions on Amazon and decide for yourself (regarding Topping NX3S on Amazon UK [pufff currently unavailable]). If you get it and you are not satisfied, send it back.

 

[RickSanchez]

Thanks all for the replies. Ive done a lot of reading around the subject of headphone amps the past week and there are some aspects that I am slightly confused on.

1 - Is an amp needed for the HD650
There seems to be quite differing opinions on this. Some have said that they are happy with the volume from an iPhone, others say quite categorically that you must use an amp the get the best from the headphones no matter what volume.
I can understand that the amp in a phone outputs much less power than a dedicated amp. But, if the power of the phone amp allows me to listen to the loudest passages of audio at my preferred listening volume (or louder), then surely that is enough?
There are suggestions that even if this is the case, that the headphones will sound better with a more powerful amp. I don't understand this. I can understand that they may sound better with a higher quality amp.
I would also have thought that there would be some clear, black and white guidance on whether a source (such as a phone) can drive a particular headphone to a certain volume using a standard test track that may contain a good variety of musical genres.

2 - the quality of the amp needed.
@solderdude very helpfully linked to some specific cheap amps above. As a newcomer to this, i was confused that these could be considered to use with a quality headphones such as the HD650's. In my uneducated opinion, it seemed obvious that cheap amps such as these in the signal path would degrade performance. But given that these have been suggested by somebody with a lot more knowledge than me means i am obviously wrong!
So how much difference would there be between using one of these amps (along with an apple usbc dac) and £100 amp/dac such as the e1da? Or even one of the high end desktop amplifiers?

This may not answer your questions but provide some perspective ...

Is an amp needed for the HD650?
I'll say two things here:

1. It's a journey. If you're currently OK with the SPL delivered by your iPhone then don't worry about. Later on you may find very good reasons to upgrade to a more powerful headphone amp, and @ZolaIII mentioned a couple great examples:
   • You start to EQ your headphones. For example, if you use the parametric EQ settings from @sweetchaos for the HD650s your pre-amp gain is -8.5. In that case you're likely going to need more power than you've got onboard with the iPhone.
   • Certain music sources are poorly mixed, requiring you to have more power to listen at decent levels.
2. Although maybe not what you're looking for this guide will help you understand the power requirements of many different headphones. (The DIY-Audio-Heaven site is run by solderdude.) From this you can work back into how much power is being delivered by your iPhone, or what you need to buy for a headphone amp. Although I think solderdude already did the work for you ...

You need an amp with at least 50mW in 300ohm (0.5W in 32ohm) when you want impressive sound.

the quality of the amp needed?
As you probably picked up from by being on ASR: price ≠ quality. To the extent you can find measurements of different amps on this site or elsewhere let that be your guide. It will take a little more work to find decent portable amps (vs. desktop headphone amps) but they are out there.

 

[Roland68]

How about a used Fiio A5?
High output power and used it should be in the budget.

 

[Not dave]

How about a used Fiio A5?
High output power and used it should be in the budget.

thanks Roland. I’ve added to my shortlist.

 

[Not dave]

Quick question re the E1DA 9038S. I understand that it needs headphones with a balanced cable. How much would a cable cost for the hd650?

and would the 9038S deliver more power to the headphones than the 9038D?

 

[Not dave]

So i finally have my new (used!) HD650's.
Managed to get them cheaper than expected, so have a couple more £'s to spend on an amp / dac.
I have the apple usb-c and lightning dac's, they probably give between 70 and 100% of the volume i need, dependent on track and mood.
While reading on this site, i have learned how important an equaliser can be, and as i am mostly using iOS as a source, eq is not available system wide.
I then discovered the Qudelix which is a dac / amp / bluetooth receiver / EQ / remote mic. It seems like a nice bit of kit. Amir's review also mentions that it works well with the HD650's (and i understand that Amir likes music quite loud).
So am almost ready to click buy - two questions
Can i charge the unit at the same time as using it?
How will the sound quality compare wired vs bluetooth - using an iPhone XR or iPad Air 4 as the source?

 

[AdamG]

To directly answer your 2 questions above: Yes AFAIK it can charge while being used. Wired will almost always sound better and measure better. Can You hear the difference? Only you can answer that question. Depends on your hearing level and how focused on the sound you are.

 

[Not dave]

To directly answer your 2 questions above: Yes AFAIK it can charge while being used. Wired will almost always sound better and measure better. Can You hear the difference? Only you can answer that question. Depends on your hearing level and how focused on the sound you are.

Given im late 40's with tinnitus, I find it impossible to tell the difference between 320kp/s mp3 and flac, indeed i oftener find it difficult to tell the difference between 128 and flac (feels like im admitting a disability!) i dont think i will !
What is the technical difference between wired and wireless?
What is the format used by bluetooth and what is the max bitrate? If the data transmission speed of bluetooth is high enough there needn't be a difference should there?

 

[AdamG]

Given im late 40's with tinnitus, I find it impossible to tell the difference between 320kp/s mp3 and flac, indeed i oftener find it difficult to tell the difference between 128 and flac (feels like im admitting a disability!) i dont think i will !
What is the technical difference between wired and wireless?
What is the format used by bluetooth and what is the max bitrate? If the data transmission speed of bluetooth is high enough there needn't be a difference should there?

Hi Not dave,

We’re pretty much in the same boat. I have you by a few decades. As to what bit-rate for Bluetooth all depends on what phone/source your using. In my case I’m using either an IPhone or iPad Pro. That gives me only AAC for Bluetooth. I’m having a hard time distinguishing any sound difference between wired (usb connection) and Bluetooth. However, I have a few years on you and my hearing is, let’s just say far from optimal. Will you be able to tell the difference? I can’t answer that. See my previous reply above.

The Bluetooth formats available on the Qudelix are listed on the web page. Match that up with what your source device is capable and you can figure that out. Good luck in your search.

 

[RickSanchez]

What is the format used by bluetooth and what is the max bitrate?

This article is as good as any that I've seen to explain the world of Bluetooth codecs.

• https://habr.com/en/post/456182/

In terms of audio quality it will depend on:

1. As @AdamG247 mentions --> both the sending and receiving device have to support the same codec.
2. The implementation of that codec.

As the article above references, often times the SBC codec is considered to be really bad. (i.e., highly compressed.) But the codec itself allows for some high quality audio depending on how it's implemented. So Linux (Pulse Audio) is really good; Android ... not so much.