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Living With Linkwitz

sfdoddsy

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#81
I had modified Orions as my main speakers for over 10 years until I had to move on due to space, marriage, aesthetics, child, cats and complexity.

I still have a smaller Linkwitz-inspired (although he'd disagree with the execution) fully active dipole system in my manspace.

So my hat is off to you.

But I'm a little confused. Are you saying you have all the speakers playing at once?

Or do you switch between them according to whim?

If the latter, yours is the only system I've seen where you can directly compare all three.

When I had my Orions it was impossible to switch between them and any other speaker unless I invested in a completely separate amp system.

So the obvious question is which do you prefer?
 

sfdoddsy

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#82
Thanks for the report, nice.
I am not aware of Amir having tested the miniDSP 4x10, can you provide a link? miniDSP's tested here at ASR, do not test that great in regards to A/D/A conversion (one exception being the SHD unit).
I'm not sure about technical tests, but there have been blind listening tests with the original MiniDSP that show it to be transparent. I can't imagine that the HD would be any different.
 
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#83

rvsixer

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#84
I'm not sure about technical tests, but there have been blind listening tests with the original MiniDSP that show it to be transparent. I can't imagine that the HD would be any different.
The question was specific to Amir miniDSP 4x10 testing. No such blind tests here at ASR. Amir did test an HD unit here, and found the D/A lacking from an objective viewpoint.
 
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#86
You are correct; the 4x10 is not in the current set of ASR DAC measurements. I probably confused it with the SHD or assumed they used the same chip - they do not. It's also possible that Amir measured it in the past and then dropped it from the list when he upgraded his measurement equipment. This was the case with the Berkeley Alpha DAC which he measured and then deleted. I bought one anyway.
 
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#87
I had modified Orions as my main speakers for over 10 years until I had to move on due to space, marriage, aesthetics, child, cats and complexity.

I still have a smaller Linkwitz-inspired (although he'd disagree with the execution) fully active dipole system in my manspace.

So my hat is off to you.

But I'm a little confused. Are you saying you have all the speakers playing at once?

Or do you switch between them according to whim?

If the latter, yours is the only system I've seen where you can directly compare all three.

When I had my Orions it was impossible to switch between them and any other speaker unless I invested in a completely separate amp system.

So the obvious question is which do you prefer?
I can have them all playing at once or in any combination. As you noted, I need plenty of amplification channels. Each AT6012 has 12 and the AT528NC has 8. I've tried a few different configurations but generally one 6012 is for the Orion's (mid and treble) and the mini's (full range), the other 6012 is for the LX521 baffle and the 528 is for the woofers and subs. I start with just the Orion's on and then add the LX521 baffle. If the image doesn't shift position left or right then I know the recording is suited to the basic geometry of the system. It doesn't make that much of a difference for close-miked or poorly recorded tracks but for stereo recordings in a large concert hall or cathedral the difference is extraordinary. It's not only the speakers that vanish but the walls as well.

As you noted, it is best to say that this approach is 'Linkwitz-inspired'. It's not a 521.4 because it only uses the top baffle. I have Seas drivers in the LX subs but the Orion's are version 3.3 so with Peerless woofers. Linkwitz envisioned a form of the LXmini's (without the full range drivers) positioned just next to the listeners seat. You can see this at www.linkwitzlab.com under the subhead "Watson". I didn't end up with that positioning. I found it distracting but maybe I was off on my delays.

Finally, I can't emphasize enough how important it was to me to hear the LX521.4 at Linkwitz's home in Corte Madera. Without that experience I wouldn't even have known what was possible. Demonstrations are on-going; see www.linkwitzlab.com
 

Chromatischism

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#88
I've been curious about these for a long time, but I guess they wouldn't work in my room. Speaker width is 8-9 ft.
 

Attachments

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#89
You are correct; the 4x10 is not in the current set of ASR DAC measurements. I probably confused it with the SHD or assumed they used the same chip - they do not. It's also possible that Amir measured it in the past and then dropped it from the list when he upgraded his measurement equipment. This was the case with the Berkeley Alpha DAC which he measured and then deleted. I bought one anyway.
Correction. I should have said, "I bought one based on Amir's early positive review (no longer in the master list) that was supported by a listening test."
 

xarkkon

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#90
I've been curious about these for a long time, but I guess they wouldn't work in my room. Speaker width is 8-9 ft.
Nice looking space! Buchardts doing well with your set up?

Back to Linkwitz, why wouldn't they work well in your room?
 

Chromatischism

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#91
Nice looking space! Buchardts doing well with your set up?

Back to Linkwitz, why wouldn't they work well in your room?
Thanks.

Really narrow dimensions. I'm reading here that the Linkwitz need a lot more space than box speakers.
 

bluefuzz

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#92
I'm reading here that the Linkwitz need a lot more space than box speakers.
I find 60 - 90 cm (2-3 ft) from back and side walls is fine. LXminis improve by being used closer to the listening position than equivalent box speakers, which automatically brings them further from walls. But they do like a relatively wide positioning greater than the usual 60° equilateral triangle if possible.
 
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#93
I've been contemplating building a LXmini setup for a while, not making up my mind if I want to add one or two subwoofers or not at some point. I keep using this excuse to procrastinate and postpone buying the kit...

I have what may sound like a dummy question and a no-no approach to more purists people than me, but it may help me to pull the trigger.

In order to save money first, I was thinking of putting a regular cheap subwoofer before the input into the miniDSP until I make up my mind to spend more if I feel I need cleaner and better integrated sub-bass.
I already own an Emotiva 5ch amp.

So something like this:
[source (ex:DAC)]---> sub line in--[SUB]---sub line out---> mini DSP---> Emotiva 5 ch amp---> LXMini

Matching the sub to the DSP setup and sound of the LXmini may end up being a challenge, but I wonder if that would be enough to satisfy my need for some time for the few tracks situation where bass would be absolutely required.
Any thoughts on this?
Don't hesitate to throw rocks at me if that's non-sense. :)
 
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#94
Check out https://oplug-support.org. This is the ORION/Pluto users support group. You will get more complete answers there and more than likely someone else has already tried what you are thinking and you can just read about how they did it and whether they liked it.
 

bigguyca

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#95
I built a pair of Orions from a wood parts kit. Also built four of the Thor 12" sealed subs. Got the analog crossover's prebuilt for the Orions and the subs through Linkwitz and the drivers from Madison. It all made a great stereo system and was also good for movies. Drove the Orions with ATI 1807's purchased through Siegfried. Drove the subs with whatever was on hand, perhaps some generation of Bryston 4B's. The Orions work for any music I play, which is mostly classical and older popular stuff, but at times bottomed during movies. The subs fixed that.

The Orions are wonderful. They would have worked long term. I liked the Orion's better than the original Salons. Salon2's and a Voice2 replaced the Orions, which are in a closet. The Salon2's (and the Voice2 for that matter) are another never need to be replaced speaker. I've only one dedicated media room, so only one system. I don't want to make a mess of the whole house.

I'm sure that if I went back to the Orions I'd be happy. I do like a quality center channel, of which there are only a handful, for movies so that preference is one item that keep the Orions in storage. If I was starting from scratch I'd like to build a couple LX521.4's from kits and buy the crossovers, although the Salon2's would be hard to avoid. From what I've seen a pair of LX521.4's and the crossovers would be less than $5k, which is really reasonable for the value received.

The Linkwitz kits I've built were easy to assemble. I'm not very handy, so if I can do it, anyone can.
 

dreite

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#97

AudioJester

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#98
Thanks. Holy cow thats expensive! Do we know what tweeters they are?
I must admit I have a big fan (personal preference) of the Beryllium tweeter in the Focal utopia speakers.
 

sfdoddsy

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#99
I've been contemplating building a LXmini setup for a while, not making up my mind if I want to add one or two subwoofers or not at some point. I keep using this excuse to procrastinate and postpone buying the kit...

I have what may sound like a dummy question and a no-no approach to more purists people than me, but it may help me to pull the trigger.

In order to save money first, I was thinking of putting a regular cheap subwoofer before the input into the miniDSP until I make up my mind to spend more if I feel I need cleaner and better integrated sub-bass.
I already own an Emotiva 5ch amp.

So something like this:
[source (ex:DAC)]---> sub line in--[SUB]---sub line out---> mini DSP---> Emotiva 5 ch amp---> LXMini

Matching the sub to the DSP setup and sound of the LXmini may end up being a challenge, but I wonder if that would be enough to satisfy my need for some time for the few tracks situation where bass would be absolutely required.
Any thoughts on this?
Don't hesitate to throw rocks at me if that's non-sense. :)
If you join the Oplug group linked to above and go into the LX mini section you’ll find details about adding cheap DIY subs. The thread was started by Davey.

If you wish to try your cheap subwoofer plan, I’d split the output from your source and send one feed direct to your sub and the other to the MiniDSP and then onwards.

Your routing, assuming the sub even has proper crossovers, will restrict you to a set 80hz crossover.
 
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The other item you might want to give a thought to is that the miniDSP units have a latency that delays the output signals. The standard miniDSP 2x4 is 1 ms and the 2x4HD is 3 ms. This could have an affect on subwoofer integration, but could be handled by room placement to provide appropriate distances to the primary listening position for the sub relative to the LXmini.

sfdoddsy brings up a good point about crossover frequency. The LXmini is good to 50 Hz on its own.
 
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