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Living With Linkwitz

dreite

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Thanks. Holy cow thats expensive! Do we know what tweeters they are?
I must admit I have a big fan (personal preference) of the Beryllium tweeter in the Focal utopia speakers.
They're a 3/4" Seas prototype of very limited production.
The polar response of these tweeters is somewhat different than the 1" stock versions, but the extension at the top end is farther.

The tweeters in the LX521 are only being used for the top 1.5 octaves (7500Hz and above) so the value ($$) judgement of this option is highly questionable. Your dog might get more enjoyment from them than you do. :)
There's a thread on this over at the OPLUG with further information, measurements, etc, etc.

Dave.
 
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The other item you might want to give a thought to is that the miniDSP units have a latency that delays the output signals. The standard miniDSP 2x4 is 1 ms and the 2x4HD is 3 ms. This could have an affect on subwoofer integration, but could be handled by room placement to provide appropriate distances to the primary listening position for the sub relative to the LXmini.
If you join the Oplug group linked to above and go into the LX mini section you’ll find details about adding cheap DIY subs. The thread was started by Davey.
thanks!
I've browsed a bit the thread at oplug, and see a lot of solutions.

The delay problem is a good point.
It seems a 4x10HD is going to be required in any case.
 

ooheadsoo

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thanks!
I've browsed a bit the thread at oplug, and see a lot of solutions.

The delay problem is a good point.
It seems a 4x10HD is going to be required in any case.
That's the cleanest and probably most optimal, but it's also possible to run a 2x4 for each side if you're using analog input or splitting toslink. Or you could chain a 2x4HD unit and a 2x4 unit if you're set on USB and/or already have a 2x4HD unit and are budget constrained.
 

sfdoddsy

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sfdoddsy brings up a good point about crossover frequency. The LXmini is good to 50 Hz on its own.
Even though the LXmini is good down to 50Hz, if I built a pair I would probably try what I do with my own DIY dipoles and have a stereo pair of subs similar to those I mentioned that were designed by Davey and cross them much higher. The XLS 10 driver is good up 300Hz or so, and with EQ can go as low as you want at moderate levels for music.

I have a separate LFE sub that kicks in for movies.
 

mac

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I've been curious about these for a long time, but I guess they wouldn't work in my room. Speaker width is 8-9 ft.
My LX521.4 setup falls outside of SL's placement recommendations, yet they sound exceptional in my room. In fact, they sound better to my ears in my room compared to how I have them sound in larger rooms. Dipole speakers can generally work in rooms well even when placed relatively close to side walls IME.

IMG_20200814_165729.jpg
 
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My LX521.4 setup falls outside of SL's placement recommendations, yet they sound exceptional in my room. In fact, they sound better to my ears in my room compared to how I have them sound in larger rooms. Dipole speakers can generally work in rooms well even when placed relatively close to side walls IME.
How much space you have behind the couch?
 

Hipper

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It doesn't make that much of a difference for close-miked or poorly recorded tracks but for stereo recordings in a large concert hall or cathedral the difference is extraordinary. It's not only the speakers that vanish but the walls as well.
This is what concerns me.

I've read a lot of the Linkwitz Labs site and I like the principle behind his designs. I listen to mostly studio recorded pop music (folky rocky countryish - plenty of vocals and harmonies) with occasional forays into melodic classical stuff. I currently listen to speakers with ribbon tweeters and mids with copious room treatment and EQ but I've never got that 'speakers vanish' experienced, just a nicely placed phantom image between the speakers.

In these circumstances, and with little opportunity to try these Linkwitz designs out, are they worth me considering when I come to replace my current speakers.
 
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Provided you follow Linkwitz’s room size and speaker placement guidelines you can expect a superb stereo image With the LX521s and LXminis. As he explains, room treatment is not necessary. My experience is that the sweet spot for listening is much wider. Because of the design, the music sounds great throughout the room. Often with very good recordings and when I’m focused on listening, the speakers do seem to disappear and you hear into the recording studio/space (psychoacoustics being very important!). Poor recordings, which unfortunately constitute the majority in your and my preferred genre, are ruthlessly exposed and the listening experience compromised.
 
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This is what concerns me.

I've read a lot of the Linkwitz Labs site and I like the principle behind his designs. I listen to mostly studio recorded pop music (folky rocky countryish - plenty of vocals and harmonies) with occasional forays into melodic classical stuff. I currently listen to speakers with ribbon tweeters and mids with copious room treatment and EQ but I've never got that 'speakers vanish' experienced, just a nicely placed phantom image between the speakers.

In these circumstances, and with little opportunity to try these Linkwitz designs out, are they worth me considering when I come to replace my current speakers.
I realise you are a fair way from me, but when (if) this Covid thing is over you are welcome to come and listen to my LX521s. I also have LXMinis and Magneplanar MG2.5R for comparison.
 

mac

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Danny completely neglected to measure the drivers with the appropriate electronic crossover in place? I'm not sure why he didn't think measuring the target acoustic curves wasn't important when trying to re-engineer this iconic speaker.

The electronic crossover designed for the Orion optimizes the W22 SEAS midrange by providing significant dipole correction down to 120Hz. His implementation completely ignores that aspect. It also allows the driver to play at the proper level relative to the tweeter.

His decision to re-engineer the rear tweeter to operate at only the top octave tosses one of Linkwitz' design objectives out the window: The Orion a full range dipole.

Danny made many other assumptions that are wrong about the Orion. For example, I only used three channels of amplification with mine, not four. He also believes his $50k tube amps perform better than a properly designed solid state amplifier, which the Orion was designed to be used with.

I could go on but I won't. Hopefully the new owner will be happy with his new mutant Orions. :oops:

this will be interesting...
@peanuts: Are you finding this interesting so far? Just curious.
 
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richard12511

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There's just so much he doesn't understand about that speaker design. :)

'Just another project to move more of expensive parts.
He's an entertaining fellow.

Dave.
As someone who's interested in these speakers, but never DIYed at all, can you help me understand what he doesn't understand? Most of what he showed did seem to improve the response, but I guess that's making the assumption that these very unique speakers are shooting for a conventionally neutral on and off axis response.
 

TimW

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As someone who's interested in these speakers, but never DIYed at all, can you help me understand what he doesn't understand? Most of what he showed did seem to improve the response, but I guess that's making the assumption that these very unique speakers are shooting for a conventionally neutral on and off axis response.
Danny did not measure the response of the speaker with the original Linkwitz crossover. He just measured the raw response of the drivers mounted to the baffle.

He was surprised to see that edge diffraction is more pronounced directly on axis with symmetrically mounted drivers. I don't understand how he has never realized that before.
 

richard12511

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He was surprised to see that edge diffraction is more pronounced directly on axis with symmetrically mounted drivers. I don't understand how he has never realized that before.
This is because the edge diffraction from both edges is aimed at your head *almost equally when listened to on axis?
 

dreite

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As someone who's interested in these speakers, but never DIYed at all, can you help me understand what he doesn't understand? Most of what he showed did seem to improve the response, but I guess that's making the assumption that these very unique speakers are shooting for a conventionally neutral on and off axis response.
The Orion design is nearly twenty years old now and extensively discussed by Siegfried on his website.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm
There are a number of trade-offs in the design, but these were all well understood by Linkwitz when he designed them. And Siegfried had already designed numerous open-baffle systems (commercial and DIY) using conventional drivers before the Orion, so he well understood the design landscape and engineering aspects of such.

This particular set of speakers appears butchered and then sent to Danny without the woofers and electronic crossover. So, it's difficult to ascertain what the owners objective and motivation was in this case.

Dave.
 
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