Kindly advise on this dolby atmos setup & seating layout for newbie

[deadchip12]

Hello,

I'm currently looking for a true dolby atmos setup to watch movies and play games, but being new to this home theater hobby (I only used headphone & surround software previously), I have no idea what to choose. For AVR, I think I'll pick the Denon X3700H. For speakers, a retailer at my place is recommending this 5.1.2 & 5.1.4 setup:

5.1.2:

• Front: YAMAHA NS-F700
• SR+ Center: Yamaha NS P350 (SR + Center)
• Sub: Yamaha NS SW300
• Ceiling: JBL C-6IC

5.1.4:

• Front: JBL Stage A190
• SR: JBL Stage A130
• Center: JBL Stage A135C
• Sub: JBL STAGE A120p
• Ceiling: Polk V60

This is the space in my room for placing the speakers:

Recently I chat with the technicians there and they advise moving the tv to the wall area between the glass window and the wooden door for more space. As for handling echos/reflections, they told me acoustic foam may help.

Any thoughts?

 

[ernestcarl]

Hello,

I'm currently looking for a true dolby atmos setup to watch movies and play games, but being new to this home theater hobby (I only used headphone & surround software previously), I have no idea what to choose. For AVR, I think I'll pick the Denon X3700H. For speakers, a retailer at my place is recommending this 5.1.2 & 5.1.4 setup:

5.1.2:

• Front: YAMAHA NS-F700
• SR+ Center: Yamaha NS P350 (SR + Center)
• Sub: Yamaha NS SW300
• Ceiling: JBL C-6IC

5.1.4:

• Front: JBL Stage A190
• SR: JBL Stage A130
• Center: JBL Stage A135C
• Sub: JBL STAGE A120p
• Ceiling: Polk V60

This is the space in my room for placing the speakers:

Recently I chat with the technicians there and they advise moving the tv to the wall area between the glass window and the wooden door for more space. As for handling echos/reflections, they told me acoustic foam may help.

Any thoughts?

Dunno about the gear to pick...

Looks like the space is too small though... but some serious acoustic absorption will help. Atmos requires multiple speakers and it is generally better to have less reflections in that case.

 

[sweetchaos]

#1 Receivers:
Your choice of Denon 3700 (which is a 9.2 channel receiver, and can be used for 5.2.4 setup, with 5 speakers, 2sub, 4atmos or perhaps 7.2.2 setup) is a great choice.
Amir reviewed it, and recommended it.
It has Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which is a good DRC (digital room correction). It will correct any room modes and make your bass much better overall.

#2 Speakers:
I see that the website you linked is in Vietnam. So can you give me a speaker budget (excluding subwoofer, receiver) in USD equivalent? That would help us to narrow down good options based on the market that I know.
Looking at your 2 sets of speakers, I wouldn't pick Yamaha's, since we don't have any anechoic/semi-anechoic data on Yamaha passive speakers. Which makes it almost impossible to judge Yamaha's performance or give a recommendation with any certainty.

JBL Stage-series speakers are a much safer bet, since Amir reviewed JBL Stage A130 and it was highly recommended.

Another thought...are you sure you need all those speakers in such a small space? You can setup a 2.1.0 (meaning 2 speaker and 1 subwoofer, and 0 atmos) for this room and already have a good experience. The next upgrade would be the center channel and a second subwoofer, for a 3.2.0 setup. Once you set that up, maybe then I'll start to thinking about the next steps, like adding surround speakers and atmos speakers.

#3 Subwoofers:
The subwoofer doesnt care what brand it is. In other words, choosing a Yamaha speakers and Yamaha subwoofer is not worthwhile. If we know your subwoofer budget (in USD equivalent), I can give you a more precise recommendation. Also, can you give me full dimensions of this room? Width, Depth, Height. In meters or feet. Assuming all doors/closets are closed.

#4 Room acoustics:
We're not there yet, haha.
Get a couch, floor rugs, some blankets and it will already deaden the reflections by a bit.
Anyway, there's no point to think about acoustic panels right now, until more furniture is in the room.

 

[Benedium]

JBL stage a130 for front speakers. Stage A120 for surround speakers.
You may be too near to appreciate floorstanders, and the money saved can go to a good subwoofer like Rythmik 12inch or SVS 12/13inch sub.

 

[deadchip12]

#1 Receivers:
Your choice of Denon 3700 (which is a 9.2 channel receiver, and can be used for 5.2.4 setup, with 5 speakers, 2sub, 4atmos or perhaps 7.2.2 setup) is a great choice.
Amir reviewed it, and recommended it.
It has Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which is a good DRC (digital room correction). It will correct any room modes and make your bass much better overall.

#2 Speakers:
I see that the website you linked is in Vietnam. So can you give me a speaker budget (excluding subwoofer, receiver) in USD equivalent? That would help us to narrow down good options based on the market that I know.
Looking at your 2 sets of speakers, I wouldn't pick Yamaha's, since we don't have any anechoic/semi-anechoic data on Yamaha passive speakers. Which makes it almost impossible to judge Yamaha's performance or give a recommendation with any certainty.

JBL Stage-series speakers are a much safer bet, since Amir reviewed JBL Stage A130 and it was highly recommended.

Another thought...are you sure you need all those speakers in such a small space? You can setup a 2.1.0 (meaning 2 speaker and 1 subwoofer, and 0 atmos) for this room and already have a good experience. The next upgrade would be the center channel and a second subwoofer, for a 3.2.0 setup. Once you set that up, maybe then I'll start to thinking about the next steps, like adding surround speakers and atmos speakers.

#3 Subwoofers:
The subwoofer doesnt care what brand it is. In other words, choosing a Yamaha speakers and Yamaha subwoofer is not worthwhile. If we know your subwoofer budget (in USD equivalent), I can give you a more precise recommendation. Also, can you give me full dimensions of this room? Width, Depth, Height. In meters or feet. Assuming all doors/closets are closed.

#4 Room acoustics:
We're not there yet, haha.
Get a couch, floor rugs, some blankets and it will already deaden the reflections by a bit.
Anyway, there's no point to think about acoustic panels right now, until more furniture is in the room.

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

I choose the Denon 3700H because it has HDMI 2.1 which is great for gaming. However, it currently has some issues with hdmi 2.1 nvidia gpu when vrr is activated so I'm still hesitant.

If we exclude avr and sub, the budget is probably $1500-2000 max.

I know the space is small, but I really want dolby atmos/surround sound. If I can't fit a dolby atmos setup in here, I'd rather continue using my existing headphone with virtual surround sound than settling for a 2.1.0 setup.

Subwoofer budget... probably $500 or lower? I honestly don't know. I'm new to this speakers world so I normally think about total budget, not budget for each part separately.

Regarding the room size, here's the thing: I sit very close to my 55" TV (within arm reach), and my TV is attached to the wall by that arm mount so it can only be moved so much away from the wall. Therefore, regardless of the room size or the layout of the room, I estimated that I would only sit 1.5m from the front wall. From there, I planned out the placement of speakers in the room (pls see the pictures below). The space will be 2.7m x2.7m. The ceiling is 3m high. I don't think the reflection is bad (I tried the old clapping method to hear the echos, but feel free to suggest me other ways to test), since it's my bed room and there are quite some furniture in the room. I did think of getting some acoustics foam and bass traps but I need to find a place to get them first. In Vietnam these products are quite niche I suppose.

 

[deadchip12]

JBL stage a130 for front speakers. Stage A120 for surround speakers.
You may be too near to appreciate floorstanders, and the money saved can go to a good subwoofer like Rythmik 12inch or SVS 12/13inch sub.

Thanks for the recommendation. Is there a reason why I should go for a130 for Front and a120 for Surround instead of a130 for all or a120 for all?

Any recommendation for central speaker and in-ceiling atmos speaker?

 

[Benedium]

Well A130 was reviewed and recommended by amirm so they would be good enough for front speakers or rear. Surround speakers being so near the rear wall together with the listener would have a great deal boundary gain and boomy bass (without digital room correction) so you can probably save money by going smaller. In Singapore the price difference is almost double. But of cos if you can afford it, probably fine to get A130 for rear duty. All the savings can go to a good subwoofer which usually cost more than 500USD. Best value and quality subwoofer seem to go low down to 20hz or lower, where the bass can be felt, without distorting. SVS, Monoprice Monolith and Rhythmik brands seem to qualify for budgets below 1000USD. Do read up more on subwoofer reviews here. I'm no expert heheh.

 

[deadchip12]

Well A130 was reviewed and recommended by amirm so they would be good enough for front speakers or rear. Surround speakers being so near the rear wall together with the listener would have a great deal boundary gain and boomy bass (without digital room correction) so you can probably save money by going smaller. All the savings can go to a good subwoofer which usually cost more than 500USD. Best value and quality subwoofer seem to go low down to 20hz or lower, where the bass can be felt, without distorting. SVS, Monoprice Monolith and Rhythmik brands seem to qualify for budgets below 1000USD.

Unfortunately those brands aren't available at my place. Is any jbl, polks or klispch sub good given this budget?

What will you choose for central speaker? Jbl stage A125c or a135c?

 

[Benedium]

I think a135c is meant to match the bigger floorstanders while a125c may match a130 better. Let's see what the others say. I'm not sure about other subwoofers. I got the SVS PB1000 in my apartment as it was the best that I could afford back then.
Found an svs dealer in vietnam
https://anhphatdiepaudio.com/

 

[deadchip12]

I think a135c is meant to match the bigger floorstanders while a125c may match a130 better. Let's see what the others say. I'm not sure about other subwoofers. I got the SVS PB1000 in my apartment as it was the best that I could afford back then.
Found an svs dealer in vietnam
https://anhphatdiepaudio.com/

Yeah that dealer is in the southern part of the country. I live in the north

 

[sweetchaos]

The space will be 2.7m x2.7m. The ceiling is 3m high.

That puts your room at 21.87m^3 (or 772ft^3), which is considered a small room (under 1500ft^3) by Audioholics.
This means you won't need an expensive/powerful subwoofer to be able to play at the reference level.
A budget subwoofer (without overspending) should provide good output, for your room.

I know the space is small, but I really want dolby atmos/surround sound. If I can't fit a dolby atmos setup in here, I'd rather continue using my existing headphone with virtual surround sound than settling for a 2.1.0 setup.

The problem with a small room is simply the separation of sound. Example, if the front speakers aren't far enough from the center, you won't feel that panning effect that happens when sound goes from left to right speaker. You need to consult Dolby guide here to see if all speakers are far enough.
By your drawing, it looks like your 5 surround speakers will probably work. But you just need to confirm whether the 4 Atmos will as well.

I don't think the reflection is bad (I tried the old clapping method to hear the echos, but feel free to suggest me other ways to test), since it's my bed room and there are quite some furniture in the room. I did think of getting some acoustics foam and bass traps but I need to find a place to get them first. In Vietnam these products are quite niche I suppose.

You don't need to think about acoustic foams and bass traps for a while. Not until you have all furniture and speakers inside the room. Then place a rug between the speaker and your sitting position, to get rid of the floor bounce. Having a couch will decrease reflections as well. If you're worried about front-wall speaker reflections, place some rugs maybe on the wall or perhaps some paintings. Either way, acoustic treatments are expensive and you solve this mostly with inexpensive furniture.

For subs, take a look at Erin's Audio Corner, CEA2010A/B sub tests.
Erin tested several budget subs that I'm sure you'll find locally.

Here's the subs below US$500:
Showing CEA2010A results...

Looking at this, you can see that the Monoprice Monolith 10 THX (US$500) passed the CEA2010A test and played 66.4dB at 12.5hz frequency. Other subs, like Klipsch, Sony, Elac, Yamaha, and Polk aren't as capable (since they retail for US$200 approx) and they all passed the 40hz test. Only Sony and Elac passed the 31.5hz frequency test, which puts them above the others, but less than Monoprice Monolith 10 THX.
That tells you the capability of these subs, and what you can expect on a budget.

About SVS subs...
SVS SB-1000 is rated for a Medium-sized room (by Audioholics standard), and it passed the CEA2010A test at 16hz...meaning it will play at those frequencies.
SVS PB-1000 is rated for a Large-sized room (by Audioholics standard), and it passed the CEA2010A test at 16hz...meaning it will play at those frequencies, but since it's ported, it has more output at those frequencies than the sealed version (SB-1000).
Looking at Vietnam SVS reseller mentioned, they do have both, for the same price? Weird. Usually PB is more expensive than SB.
If you want the best performance, get PB-1000 and it will work great for your room.
If you want to save some space (since SB-1000 is smaller than PB-1000 in shape), then get SB-1000 at the expense of some output at lowest frequencies (16hz).
You don't need models rated SB/PB-2000 or higher, as those subs were made for more capable rooms that yours, so if you do get them, you'll overspending and won't feel the difference in your room anyway....that's why I asked for your room size.
Here's data from Wirecutter on both SB-1000 and PB-1000... (source is my own spreadsheet, gathered from several places, including wirecutter):

So if you can't tell by now, the US$500 SVS subs smoke the budget US$200 subs in terms of output, especially at the lower frequencies, where the difference is visible.
That's why they're highly recommended.
So I would do anything possible to get your hands on SVS subs, especially since they're around 12,500,000 VND = US$540, which is perfect for your budget.

 

[sweetchaos]

I used this spreadsheet to help you narrow down the options.
Requirements:
1. Passive only
2. Speaker that Amir reviewed and Highly Recommended

In terms of speakers...can you get Elac DBR62? Let me know the pricing if you can. They retail for US$600/pair.

 

[deadchip12]

That puts your room at 21.87m^3 (or 772ft^3), which is considered a small room (under 1500ft^3) by Audioholics.
This means you won't need an expensive/powerful subwoofer to be able to play at the reference level.
A budget subwoofer (without overspending) should provide good output, for your room.

For subs, take a look at Erin's Audio Corner, CEA2010A/B sub tests.
Erin tested several budget subs that I'm sure you'll find locally.

Here's the subs below US$500:
Showing CEA2010A results...
View attachment 109474
Looking at this, you can see that the Monoprice Monolith 10 THX (US$500) passed the CEA2010A test and played 66.4dB at 12.5hz frequency. Other subs, like Klipsch, Sony, Elac, Yamaha, and Polk aren't as capable (since they retail for US$200 approx) and they all passed the 40hz test. Only Sony and Elac passed the 31.5hz frequency test, which puts them above the others, but less than Monoprice Monolith 10 THX.
That tells you the capability of these subs, and what you can expect on a budget.

About SVS subs...
SVS SB-1000 is rated for a Medium-sized room (by Audioholics standard), and it passed the CEA2010A test at 16hz...meaning it will play at those frequencies.
SVS PB-1000 is rated for a Large-sized room (by Audioholics standard), and it passed the CEA2010A test at 16hz...meaning it will play at those frequencies, but since it's ported, it has more output at those frequencies than the sealed version (SB-1000).
Looking at Vietnam SVS reseller mentioned, they do have both, for the same price? Weird. Usually PB is more expensive than SB.
If you want the best performance, get PB-1000 and it will work great for your room.
If you want to save some space (since SB-1000 is smaller than PB-1000 in shape), then get SB-1000 at the expense of some output at lowest frequencies (16hz).
You don't need models rated SB/PB-2000 or higher, as those subs were made for more capable rooms that yours, so if you do get them, you'll overspending and won't feel the difference in your room anyway....that's why I asked for your room size.
Here's data from Wirecutter on both SB-1000 and PB-1000... (source is my own spreadsheet, gathered from several places, including wirecutter):
View attachment 109479
So if you can't tell by now, the US$500 SVS subs smoke the budget US$200 subs in terms of output, especially at the lower frequencies, where the difference is visible.
That's why they're highly recommended.
So I would do anything possible to get your hands on SVS subs, especially since they're around 12,500,000 VND = US$540, which is perfect for your budget.

That reseller seems to be the only one selling this SVS PB-1000 sub in Vietnam, but they are too far from my place. The shipping fee will be probably outrageous and it'll be a PITA if something happens and I need to send it back for repairs under warranty.

Any alternative to this sub, preferably from the same reseller I mentioned in the OP: reseller's sub list?

 

[sweetchaos]

Okay, finished my analysis...

I looked through all the models that I collected subwoofer CEA2010A data for and matched with the available subs that this seller (HDRADIO.VN) has.

Result?
- Found 11 CEA2010A reviewed subs from the same vendors (Polk, Definitive Technology, Klipsch, Focal, Rel, Yamaha)
- Of those 11 subs, 5 subs were available to purchase on this website
- Of those 5 available subs, 1 subwoofer clearly stands out as the #1 in terms of best output (most dB at the lowest frequency) and that was...
Klipsch SPL-120, which is 12,690,000 VND (or US$551).
It passed the 16hz test, so it's able to produce frequencies that low, although not that loud.
In terms of 20hz, it beat the other available subs by a large margin, only losing to Definitive Technology 8000 by 4dB (but that sub costs US$1215 equivalent, so I would expect better performance, of course).

I think it's a safe bet to get.

One subwoofer beat this one, and it was Klipsch R-115SW (which is US$700 equivalent)...but this reseller doesnt have it.
That would have been my #1 pick, if it was available of course!

In fact, I would recommend that once you setup your theater, to start saving up $ for a second one of SPL-120.
Since two subs will provide a much better experience, regardless of how many people are in the room. It will also eliminate any room modes, where frequency dips cause a lack of bass in certain spots. Dual subs for a home theater is a worthwhile solution for your end-game.

 

[deadchip12]

Okay, finished my analysis...

I looked through all the models that I collected subwoofer CEA2010A data for and matched with the available subs that this seller (HDRADIO.VN) has.

Result?
- Found 11 CEA2010A reviewed subs from the same vendors (Polk, Definitive Technology, Klipsch, Focal, Rel, Yamaha)
- Of those 11 subs, 5 subs were available to purchase on this website
- Of those 5 available subs, 1 subwoofer clearly stands out as the #1 in terms of best output (most dB at the lowest frequency) and that was...
Klipsch SPL-120, which is 12,690,000 VND (or US$551).
It passed the 16hz test, so it's able to produce frequencies that low, although not that loud.
In terms of 20hz, it beat the other available subs by a large margin, only losing to Definitive Technology 8000 by 4dB (but that sub costs US$1215 equivalent, so I would expect better performance, of course).
View attachment 109816
I think it's a safe bet to get.

One subwoofer beat this one, and it was Klipsch R-115SW (which is US$700 equivalent)...but this reseller doesnt have it.
That would have been my #1 pick, if it was available of course!

In fact, I would recommend that once you setup your theater, to start saving up $ for a second one of SPL-120.
Since two subs will provide a much better experience, regardless of how many people are in the room. It will also eliminate any room modes, where frequency dips cause a lack of bass in certain spots. Dual subs for a home theater is a worthwhile solution for your end-game.

Hey man just want to say I really appreciate the time and effort you spent putting all this info together to help me.

I'll look at that Klispch sub and report back once I make a decision.

Currently, for the 5 speakers on the floor, I think I'll go with all jbl. 2 x a170 for front, 2 x a130 for surround, and a125c for center. I will go to that reseller store and ask them to put together the same setup within an area that is equal in size as the space in my room so I can see how this system will fair in my use case.

 

[deadchip12]

Okay, finished my analysis...

I looked through all the models that I collected subwoofer CEA2010A data for and matched with the available subs that this seller (HDRADIO.VN) has.

Result?
- Found 11 CEA2010A reviewed subs from the same vendors (Polk, Definitive Technology, Klipsch, Focal, Rel, Yamaha)
- Of those 11 subs, 5 subs were available to purchase on this website
- Of those 5 available subs, 1 subwoofer clearly stands out as the #1 in terms of best output (most dB at the lowest frequency) and that was...
Klipsch SPL-120, which is 12,690,000 VND (or US$551).
It passed the 16hz test, so it's able to produce frequencies that low, although not that loud.
In terms of 20hz, it beat the other available subs by a large margin, only losing to Definitive Technology 8000 by 4dB (but that sub costs US$1215 equivalent, so I would expect better performance, of course).
View attachment 109816
I think it's a safe bet to get.

One subwoofer beat this one, and it was Klipsch R-115SW (which is US$700 equivalent)...but this reseller doesnt have it.
That would have been my #1 pick, if it was available of course!

In fact, I would recommend that once you setup your theater, to start saving up $ for a second one of SPL-120.
Since two subs will provide a much better experience, regardless of how many people are in the room. It will also eliminate any room modes, where frequency dips cause a lack of bass in certain spots. Dual subs for a home theater is a worthwhile solution for your end-game.

Sorry to bother you again. Since I may end up with the spl-120 you recommended, I think well why don't I just go full Klipsch with the remaining speakers. I'm looking at Klispch line-up now and try to match the jbl speakers I chose in term of quality and budget. Maybe I will ask the store to make 2 setups: one klispch and one jbl, and then I will test them one after another to see which one I like more. Should I go with the Reference or the Reference Premiere series? I guess the latter sounds better?

 

[sweetchaos]

Sorry to bother you again. Since I may end up with the spl-120 you recommended, I think well why don't I just go full Klipsch with the remaining speakers. I'm looking at Klispch line-up now and try to match the jbl speakers I chose in term of quality and budget. Maybe I will ask the store to make 2 setups: one klispch and one jbl, and then I will test them one after another to see which one I like more. Should I go with the Reference or the Reference Premiere series? I guess the latter sounds better?

Avoid Klipsch speakers in general.
Klipsch have a certain sound, that only a minority of people will enjoy...most people who praise these are either def or have no clue about what a good speaker sounds like.
Klipsch speakers are just not well-engineered.

Here's a budget one for US$229/pair => Klipsch R-41M => Headless Panther Award
Here's a top-end for US$630/pair => Klipsch RP-600M => Headless Panther Award

The JBLs you've chosen are much better speakers.

 

[Benedium]

Sorry to bother you again. Since I may end up with the spl-120 you recommended, I think well why don't I just go full Klipsch with the remaining speakers. I'm looking at Klispch line-up now and try to match the jbl speakers I chose in term of quality and budget. Maybe I will ask the store to make 2 setups: one klispch and one jbl, and then I will test them one after another to see which one I like more. Should I go with the Reference or the Reference Premiere series? I guess the latter sounds better?

Anyone who has explored this website will say Hell No to the Klipsch speakers haha. Please go with JBL for the speakers.

 

[deadchip12]

Avoid Klipsch speakers in general.
Klipsch have a certain sound, that only a minority of people will enjoy...most people who praise these are either def or have no clue about what a good speaker sounds like.
Klipsch speakers are just not well-engineered.

Here's a budget one for US$229/pair => Klipsch R-41M => Headless Panther Award
Here's a top-end for US$630/pair => Klipsch RP-600M => Headless Panther Award

The JBLs you've chosen are much better speakers.

Oops...

Yeah I think I read about the boosted lows and highs on the klipsch in some reviews. The Reference line-up in particular is really piercingly bright that people move to the Premiere one. But Amir's review of the Premiere speaker you quoted is... not positive either.

 

[deadchip12]

Okay, finished my analysis...

I looked through all the models that I collected subwoofer CEA2010A data for and matched with the available subs that this seller (HDRADIO.VN) has.

Result?
- Found 11 CEA2010A reviewed subs from the same vendors (Polk, Definitive Technology, Klipsch, Focal, Rel, Yamaha)
- Of those 11 subs, 5 subs were available to purchase on this website
- Of those 5 available subs, 1 subwoofer clearly stands out as the #1 in terms of best output (most dB at the lowest frequency) and that was...
Klipsch SPL-120, which is 12,690,000 VND (or US$551).
It passed the 16hz test, so it's able to produce frequencies that low, although not that loud.
In terms of 20hz, it beat the other available subs by a large margin, only losing to Definitive Technology 8000 by 4dB (but that sub costs US$1215 equivalent, so I would expect better performance, of course).
View attachment 109816
I think it's a safe bet to get.

One subwoofer beat this one, and it was Klipsch R-115SW (which is US$700 equivalent)...but this reseller doesnt have it.
That would have been my #1 pick, if it was available of course!

In fact, I would recommend that once you setup your theater, to start saving up $ for a second one of SPL-120.
Since two subs will provide a much better experience, regardless of how many people are in the room. It will also eliminate any room modes, where frequency dips cause a lack of bass in certain spots. Dual subs for a home theater is a worthwhile solution for your end-game.

OK so I did some more research and it seems the general consensus is in its price range, the svs pb-1000 simply wins by a mile. Therefore, I've decided to get that sub at all cost (well, probably not at all cost, but I'm willing to take some risk). There's an e-commerce site in Vietnam (kinda like amazon in the US), where the sub is being sold. The stock is currently out but will be soon available. The shipping fee is pretty high but the good thing is if the sub becomes faulty within the warranty period, they will send people to my house to get the sub and bring it to the repair center at no additional cost.