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Is power the only way to compare amplifiers in terms of how loud they can make headphones?

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I'm asking because when comparing the Schiit Magni 3+ to the Schitt Asgard 3, the Asgard 3 seems to only be marginally louder on the Fostex T60's. I understand they're lower impedance and therefore more current based, but I was still shocked to find that the Asgard 3 didn't really make them all that much louder at max volume even though it's rated at a little less than double the power (5W vs 2.7W). Even more confusing than this was the fact that the Flux Labs FA-12 seemed to do the best even though it was rated at the least (1.7W) power out of all three amplifiers
 

devopsprodude

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Looks like those Fostex headphones have impedance of 50 ohms. So power for Asgard 3 is 2.5 watts per channel, and power for Magni 3+ is 1.6 watts.

Are you using both in low gain or high? What DAC are you using and does it have volume as well?
 
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Both in high gain, maxed out. Both using (separate) Modi 3+ which doesn't have volume control
 
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No issues driving them, thankfully. They get plenty loud (not ear splittingly, but enough that maxed out on high gain the Magni 3+ drives them to levels I wouldn't want to listen to for very long). I'm not complaining that they don't get loud enough; I'm just asking about something that I thought was noteworthy - namely that there only seems to be a marginal difference between the Asgard 3 and Magni 3+ using the same DAC (I'm not criticizing either great product for a lack of power, either - I'm just surprised at the outcome of my less-than-scientific comparison considering the reputation the Asgard 3 gets for how much power it has compared to the Magnus)
 

devopsprodude

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Yeah, I would definitely expect that if someone maxes out tolerable volume at 12 o'clock position on JDS Atom, with your headphones that you should experience about the same with either Asgard 3 or Magni 3+ as both have significantly more power than the Atom.
 

devopsprodude

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Jimbob54 is using SMSL SU-8 DAC in that thread, which has same 2V output that your Modi 3+ is rated for.

I'm going to assume that you're using the supplied wall wart and USB cable for power to the Modi 3+...
 

dc655321

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I'm asking because when comparing the Schiit Magni 3+ to the Schitt Asgard 3, the Asgard 3 seems to only be marginally louder on the Fostex T60's. I understand they're lower impedance and therefore more current based, but I was still shocked to find that the Asgard 3 didn't really make them all that much louder at max volume even though it's rated at a little less than double the power (5W vs 2.7W). Even more confusing than this was the fact that the Flux Labs FA-12 seemed to do the best even though it was rated at the least (1.7W) power out of all three amplifiers

2x power is only a 3dB difference. Not much at all, and no mystery whatsoever.
 

Quomz

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Maximum gain is 15.5 dB for Asgard 3 and 15 dB for Magni 3+ it seems. So Asgard is really only marginally louder I would say.
 

MrPeabody

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Maximum gain is 15.5 dB for Asgard 3 and 15 dB for Magni 3+ it seems. So Asgard is really only marginally louder I would say.

That's such little difference that the wonder is that the OP actually heard a difference. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be able to hear a difference of .14 dB. Although, he did mention that there is a difference in output impedance, so depending on how great that difference is, it may be the reason that he was able to hear a difference.
 

Jimbob54

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No issues driving them, thankfully. They get plenty loud (not ear splittingly, but enough that maxed out on high gain the Magni 3+ drives them to levels I wouldn't want to listen to for very long). I'm not complaining that they don't get loud enough; I'm just asking about something that I thought was noteworthy - namely that there only seems to be a marginal difference between the Asgard 3 and Magni 3+ using the same DAC (I'm not criticizing either great product for a lack of power, either - I'm just surprised at the outcome of my less-than-scientific comparison considering the reputation the Asgard 3 gets for how much power it has compared to the Magnus)
Are you using any EQ?
 
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Maximum gain is 15.5 dB for Asgard 3 and 15 dB for Magni 3+ it seems. So Asgard is really only marginally louder I would say.
What do you mean by maximum gain? Also, if both amps are gain limited to the same loudness, what's the purpose of the extra power on the Asgard 3?
 
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That's such little difference that the wonder is that the OP actually heard a difference. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be able to hear a difference of .14 dB. Although, he did mention that there is a difference in output impedance, so depending on how great that difference is, it may be the reason that he was able to hear a difference.
I was speaking of impedance with respect to the headphones, not the amps. I imagine the out impedances are the same for them
 
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Jimbob54 is using SMSL SU-8 DAC in that thread, which has same 2V output that your Modi 3+ is rated for.

I'm going to assume that you're using the supplied wall wart and USB cable for power to the Modi 3+...
You'd be correct
 

dc655321

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I don't have much of a frame of reference for how loud a DB is. Is there a good resource on that?

There are online hearing tests around that can demonstrate this.

For reference, 1dB difference is barely noticable, while 3dB is a small, easily noticable volume difference. 10dB difference is perceptually twice as loud.
 

MrPeabody

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10dB difference is perceptually twice as loud.

This is especially true if you define "twice as loud" to be the perceived difference in volume for 10 dB difference in SPL.
 

metaleggman

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The only thing I can ascertain from the specs is that it appears as though Flux Lab amps have much higher gain settings than the two Schiits; all of their amps appear to have over 10db of gain on their minimum level, and up to 20+ on the highest levels, meaning highest gain is what, audibly 4 times as loud as the source? Are you using the FA-12's balanced output or SE? Are you running in an exclusive mode with your DAC? Seems like the difference between the two Schiits could merely be of topology, not necessarily of one being rather that much powerful than the other. Could also be that the extra power of the Asgard means being able to drive heads with much higher impedance, not necessarily driving the same, fairly low impedance (though low sensitivity as well) headphones noticeably louder, though someone correct me if I'm way off base with that one.

How do the pot positions fair for what you'd deem a comfortable listening level, out of curiosity? To me, if they're the same give a few degrees at your preferred listening level, then for the purposes of your fostexs and your preferred listening level, they're about the same power. Plus all those power numbers from manufacturers can be a bit fudged, as we've seen from Amirm's reviews, or simply tested in incongruent ways between manufacturers.

I run fully balanced from my zen dac to my drop thx amp to my casns, but testing my HE-4XX's, about the same sensitivity, 15 ohm lower impedance though, completely single ended, full pot medium gain (1x) is pretty painful, and full pot low gain (0.33x) is pretty close to the highest I'd listen to comfortably. Not sure how the THX compares to any of the mentioned amps, or if 15 ohm is significant or not, but I hope that info is useful to some degree.
 

RayDunzl

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I don't have much of a frame of reference for how loud a DB is. Is there a good resource on that?

Experience is a good teacher.

Unless you have something that already attenuates/amplifies by specified decibels, download Audacity and import an Audio Track (or create test tones) and attenuate/amplify to demonstrate the effect.
 
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