• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Is JBL going out if business?

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,315
Location
uk, taunton
Try as they might I don't think they are shutting up shop.

It's probably the worse managed brand in history though so I'd expect further profound changes to happen after Harman was acquired by Samsung a while back .
 

Palladium

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
685
Likes
826
I'm sure the death of their consumer hi-fi division has nothing to do with the complete lack of interest in traditional hi-fi systems by the general populace who isn't an aging male baby boomer.
 
OP
Phelonious Ponk

Phelonious Ponk

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
859
Likes
217
Try as they might I don't think they are shutting up shop.

It's probably the worse managed brand in history though so I'd expect further profound changes to happen after Harman was acquired by Samsung a while back .

You're clearly not a student of brand management.
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,315
Location
uk, taunton
You're clearly not a student of brand management.
Well, if I were to ask a freind what JBL ment to them they would say "cheap hifi and portable speakers" if I was to ask a studio engineer what JBL ment to them they would likely say something very different and if I were to ask a Japanese hifi enthusiast etc etc

There are no consistent brand values or indeed any type of purposeful coherent identity.

What's a brand ment to do?

It's ment to carry a value, it's got be be consistent else the name will damage the product. That's what happens with JBL , the high end stuff is tainted by the lower end reputation it has. That's in the domestic landscape.

It's like having McDonald's open a Michelin star restaurant, they might indeed do that but they won't call it McDonalds and put a yellow M outside.

Unless they are trying to add value to the chain by linking the name to high end cuisine , unlikely though.

Getting back to JBL their hifi business is not enhanced by sharing a name with its more basic lines and nor is their basic lines enhanced by the hifi reputation.. possibly the studio side having a good reputation benefits them.

So a unnecessarily confused and incoherent brand strategy.

For good brand management look at the European automobile industry.

You won't find Porsche scrapping the name in favour of VW ..

Fiat won't scrap Ferrari and put fiat on a their latest model ..

JBL make Skodas , they make VW's and they make Ferrari's but they are all called JBL and suffer accordingly.

They do have strong name recognition.. most folks have heard of JBL in some capacity.

I could go on and talk about the fractured distribution network, the hideous management they have in foreign territories like the uk.. all effects the brand value.

That mostly relates to customer mindset and product perception ( there's other elements obviously, like the distribution I briefly mentioned ) But I'm not a student of brand management so I would not know anything about them .
 
Last edited:
OP
Phelonious Ponk

Phelonious Ponk

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
859
Likes
217
Oh. Don't get me wrong, it's bad, but having spent most of my career in brand development, I've seen worse. What JBL has, whether they're aware of it or not, is a very poorly-executed master brand strategy, in which the well-recognized master is meant to lend gravitas to the sub brands. The problems, superficially, are that they have almost completely different target markets for pro audio, consumer audio and automotive (whose customer is automobile manufacturers), and that they have utterly failed at leveraging the strategy. A good ad team could make a case for the excellence of the pro line trickling down; I think the case is there, actually. But they haven't made it.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,537
Likes
17,431
Location
Central Fl
The author was lamenting yet another loss of a legendary US company to a foreign power, same as I did in an earlier thread. :(
Very sad that the situation exists where so many companies that built honored and respected name recognition have been gobbled up by those wishing to align themself to that greatness without having to first put forth the effort, Just buy it.

Hannibal Lecter: No! He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer now.

Clarice Starling: No. We just...

Hannibal Lecter: No. We begin by coveting what we see every day
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,973
Likes
244,963
Location
Seattle Area
That is just sour grapes from Greg Timbers. He was let go because he did not want to enter the modern era of acoustics. One that is dominated by proper research, controlled listening tests, etc. He kept kicking and screaming and eventually folks are let go who don't adopt change. You don't keep building CD players in the age of digital music distribution.

New, highly talented people have taken his work as evidenced by the superb work/performance of JBL M2 and alike (note: my company carries their products).

JBL is a very strong brand and I see nothing impacting it.
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,315
Location
uk, taunton
That is just sour grapes from Greg Timbers. He was let go because he did not want to enter the modern era of acoustics. One that is dominated by proper research, controlled listening tests, etc. He kept kicking and screaming and eventually folks are let go who don't adopt change. You don't keep building CD players in the age of digital music distribution.

New, highly talented people have taken his work as evidenced by the superb work/performance of JBL M2 and alike (note: my company carries their products).

JBL is a very strong brand and I see nothing impacting it.
The designs as far as I know are move forward looking and represent genuine progress .

I don't see it as a strong brand though beyond having name recognition, a established recognised R&D department and being bank rolled by Harman ( possibly not as bad as I thought in those terms at least ) :D

Do strong brands announce a product launch as being weeks away but then have 4 months delay? :D We call that a Shambles in the uk. :cool:
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,419
Location
Seattle Area, USA
The problems, superficially, are that they have almost completely different target markets for pro audio, consumer audio and automotive (whose customer is automobile manufacturers), and that they have utterly failed at leveraging the strategy. A good ad team could make a case for the excellence of the pro line trickling down; I think the case is there, actually. But they haven't made it.

In contrast Dynaudio plays in all those markets - car (~50% of sales, OEM), pro, and consumer and seems not to have suffered. Maybe it's because they don't play at the lower end of the consumer market, i.e. no <$100 Bluetooth "pill" speakers.
 

Palladium

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
685
Likes
826
In contrast Dynaudio plays in all those markets - car (~50% of sales, OEM), pro, and consumer and seems not to have suffered. Maybe it's because they don't play at the lower end of the consumer market, i.e. no <$100 Bluetooth "pill" speakers.

IINW, the main reason Samsung bought Harman in the first place is because 2/3 of their revenue came from automotive.
 

organeu

New Member
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
3
Likes
2
I am dismayed, overwhelmed by the fact that a somity of electro-acoustic physics, the great Engineer Greg Timbers, could have been fired on the one hand, and under such conditions after 43 years of life and professional loyalty for JBL. It is just shameful, absolutely inhumane rogue methods.
How can we fire such a great Engineer who gave his letters of nobility to JBL with legendary, mythical series like the 43 (consumer and professional division) or the fabulous Everest then its incredible Evolution DD66000 certainly the best acoustic cabinet of the audio industry in its class.
But who are these incompetent, these skunk, these irresponsible who have no recognition and cut the branch of the tree on which they are sitting? And, who is this "amirm" on the forum that supports them and doesn't seem to have invented hot water.
Harman was a fabulous company with prestigious brands including flagship JBL, Crown and Souncraft until Samsung came into the group's capital and turned everything upside down, suicidal attitude. A sound technician specifying the JBL, Crown and Soundcraft brands since 1977.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,537
Likes
17,431
Location
Central Fl
A sound technician specifying the JBL, Crown and Soundcraft brands since 1977.
Humm, strange first post but welcome to ASR in any case.
I get this feeling there's a bigger story behind this post.
Identify yourself please. ;)
 

organeu

New Member
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
3
Likes
2
My take is that post is from a disgruntled ex-employee (granted, an important one) on the changing of the guard.

FWIW, Timbers was not meaningfully involved in the M2 design, nor its descendants, which appear to be the new design direction.
Great Engineer Greg Timbers mainly worked in the high fidelity division. The JBL M2 is in the professional division, recording studios. Don't mix everything up. That being said, there are wealthy individuals, the rich, let's say it, who bought this speaker for their living room! JBL professional equipment has always had in the past versions for the general public, compared to the famous sound of unrivaled realism, hence the saying:
 

organeu

New Member
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
3
Likes
2
That is just sour grapes from Greg Timbers. He was let go because he did not want to enter the modern era of acoustics. One that is dominated by proper research, controlled listening tests, etc. He kept kicking and screaming and eventually folks are let go who don't adopt change. You don't keep building CD players in the age of digital music distribution.

New, highly talented people have taken his work as evidenced by the superb work/performance of JBL M2 and alike (note: my company carries their products).

JBL is a very strong brand and I see nothing impacting it.
It is unconsciousness to say such words, you are in pain I think.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,419
Location
Seattle Area, USA
I am dismayed, overwhelmed by the fact that a somity of electro-acoustic physics, the great Engineer Greg Timbers, could have been fired on the one hand, and under such conditions after 43 years of life and professional loyalty for JBL. It is just shameful, absolutely inhumane rogue methods.
How can we fire such a great Engineer who gave his letters of nobility to JBL with legendary, mythical series like the 43 (consumer and professional division) or the fabulous Everest then its incredible Evolution DD66000 certainly the best acoustic cabinet of the audio industry in its class.
But who are these incompetent, these skunk, these irresponsible who have no recognition and cut the branch of the tree on which they are sitting? And, who is this "amirm" on the forum that supports them and doesn't seem to have invented hot water.
Harman was a fabulous company with prestigious brands including flagship JBL, Crown and Souncraft until Samsung came into the group's capital and turned everything upside down, suicidal attitude. A sound technician specifying the JBL, Crown and Soundcraft brands since 1977.

Timbers was let go 5 years ago.

JBL/Harman hasn't gone out of business since then, and has in fact released many new speakers, some of which are well reviewed.

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote....

wowie
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,973
Likes
244,963
Location
Seattle Area
And, who is this "amirm" on the forum that supports them and doesn't seem to have invented hot water.
I am the one who knows stuff like this:

1606174243433.png


You want to stay employed in a big company, you don't pick public fights like this.
 
Top Bottom