Is an Astell&Kern AK380 or SP1000 the ultimate music source?

[The Smokester]

Traveling on a sailboat for the past few years limits options for a hi-end audio system. Presently, I have an Astell&Keens AK380 with Sennheiser HD800S headphones playing hi-rez digital downloads.

I will soon return to land and am curious whether the AK380 will be "as good as it gets", and sufficient, for a high-end system. To set expectations, my pre-sailboat system front end, which I sold, was an SME 20 TT, Koetsu Platinum Onyx cartridge, and Wavestream Kinetics phonograph amp. Music mainly is classic rock, jazz and classical. Acoustic. I attend concerts so have an idea what real music sounds like.

I think digital music...hardware and mastering methods...may have evolved in the past six years so that I won't need to return to analogue.

So, will the AK380 be good or do I need a better front end? What say you?

 

[Sal1950]

I will soon return to land and am curious whether the AK380 will be "as good as it gets", and sufficient, for a high-end system

Used how?
As a music source supplying those high rez files over USB to a quality DAC > music system, Sure, it's going to sound as good as any other source you could use to serve those files. (I think it can be configured that way?)
As for it's built in DAC and using it as a analog server I can't say. But that's not the way I'd use it for a quality home system.

 

[The Smokester]

Used how?
As a music source supplying those high rez files over USB to a quality DAC > music system, Sure, it's going to sound as good as any other source you could use to serve those files. (I think it can be configured that way?)
As for it's built in DAC and using it as a analog server I can't say. But that's not the way I'd use it for a quality home system.

Yes. As a source. It can take music from a server on a PC as well.

I haven't seen measurements for the AK380, but it's predecessor, the AK 240, measured very well below levels of jitter and other distortion measurements that I think many on this site would say were imperceptible.

Right now I have no good way or place to try the AK380 in a good system so am asking for anyone with experience or opinions

 

[Sal1950]

Yes. As a source. It can take music from a server on a PC as well.

I haven't seen measurements for the AK380, but it's predecessor, the AK 240, measured very well below levels of jitter and other distortion measurements that I think many on this site would say were imperceptible.

Right now I have no good way or place to try the AK380 in a good system so am asking for anyone with experience or opinions

I think you missed my point, if you use the AK as a digital source bypassing the onboard DAC, it's jitter measurements, etc; won't count, that will be addressed by the outboard DAC..

OTOH, The AK did have a very well regarded DAC onboard so the ability to hear any kind of changes either way could be highly debatable. In any case it should be capable of supplying excelled SQ to a very good home system. I don't really see any need to spend a bunch of money on anything else at this point.
Get better speakers.

 

[The Smokester]

I think you missed my point, if you use the AK as a digital source bypassing the onboard DAC, it's jitter measurements, etc; won't count, that will be addressed by the outboard DAC..

...

Didn't really. I think with less than 384GB storage I would be under served.

I'm thinking of streaming from a server and using the AK380 as the outboard DAC.

Partly the question is if I can use this player as a reference quality source for playing my test tracks while shopping for a new system.

 

[Sal1950]

Well storage size is a whole other consideration which only you can answer as to your needs.

In the end if your unsure of the DAC SQ being delivered by the AK, $79 for the excellent Behringer to compare against would answer that question,
http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/
It ain't pretty, but it don't lie.

 

[The Smokester]

Interesting. Seems like it would be hard to buy a lousy DAC these days. What happened to the Chipmunks?

 

[The Smokester]

Okay. Rip van Winkle here. Still need advice. I am getting back into audio and planning a new system starting with a clean sheet of paper. Since the last post I purchased a pair of Focal Utopia headphones.

My strategy is to take advantage of new hiRez mastering to learn what is new in recording state-of-the-art. Then I will bootstrap my way downstream all the way to new speakers. So, at least at first, I will be using the AK380 with hiRez files on music I am familiar with to assess components.

Not sure if the AK380/Utopias will stand the test of time but it is a starting point.

Note: At the moment I do not have a place to bring components home and assess them in situ. And, I'm not part of the audiophile scene here more.

To set the scale, my strawman is Sonas Faber Homage fullrange speakers driven by Air Tight SETs or an Ayre solid state amp...maybe even their integrated! Design basis threat: Classical symphonic music.

Is this a reasonable approach? What would you suggest? How would you, an experienced audiophile, build a new, modern, living room system from scratch?

 

[Sal1950]

Is this a reasonable approach? What would you suggest? How would you, an experienced audiophile, build a new, modern, living room system from scratch?

That's the worst question ever.

Your thoughts of continuing to use your current AK source is a sound one, but then depending on your room size you have to start at the speakers.
Even among serious guys here there is a whole world of different preferences.
If your going to go the old school route of passive speakers, then you have to start at the speaker choice to determine the amp that might best suite it's needs. Then the source gear behind it.
Many here are now looking into the powered or DSP controlled/powered speakers so behind it is even easier.

I like horns/high efficiency design speakers, been running them for 40+ years now. But if I was going to start over I'd still be torn between the passive and powered worlds.
There are many here including myself that would point you to the Harman line of products, JBL or Revel.
Then we have a contingent of panel lovers here, Martin Logan, etc; also excellent choices.
Keith at Purite Audio is a fan and dealer of DSP/powered like the Kii THREE's

The others can all speak for themselves but most are going to agree that speaker decision has to be first and foremost, after that the rest is easy-peasy.
How much you want'a spend?

 

[The Smokester]

Okay. Maybe I am going to pull some chains but since this is the audio science forum... Hasn't technology and understanding risen to the level where I can just look at the specs of all the components and assemble a system which realizes the proverbial "straight wire with gain?" And which I will instantly love? If I like the original performance, then can I assemble a system (modulo room effects) which reproduces it out the far end just on the basis of specs? Or do I need to go through the process of lugging stuff home, living with it as long as I can, and then trying something else. This took me years before I arrived at my previous system which truly was an endpoint for me.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Dream on, my friend.

 

[Sal1950]

Hasn't technology and understanding risen to the level where I can just look at the specs of all the components and assemble a system which realizes the proverbial "straight wire with gain?"

No speaker has ever been designed that even comes close to that "straight wire with gain". Published specs on speakers are never through enough to tell you very much about their sound and they all sound very different.
So your then faced with two choices,
1. Find a way to listen to the candidates yourself.
2. Spend a lot of time reading reviews in the audiophile mags and websites. Find a speaker that gets a general positive consensus in the areas of the quality you desire.

As for everything behind that, in most cases todays technology has pretty much given us totally transparent gear for a long time. The ones that don't can be identified via measurement.

 

[The Smokester]

2. Spend a lot of time reading reviews in the audiophile mags and websites. Find a speaker that gets a general positive consensus in the areas of the quality you desire.

Thanks for indulging me. You are right of course, I think mostly.

Let me tell you how #2 above has worked out for me recently. I just dumped $4k into a set of headphones. Spent hours at a local music shop (where in previous decades I blew tens of $k's) listening to all the contenders: Senn HD800 ($1.1k) and HD800S ($1.7k), Audeze LC4 ($4k) and Focal Utopia ($4k). My reaction to the Utopias was similar to what I had to the Senn Orpheus years ago...namely, aside from all the other positive attributes these allowed one to hear things like reverberations reasonably and other low level sounds best. And they sound terrific at low volume which to me is a requirement.

Before pulling out the wallet, I went home to do dew due dilligence. Have you ever tried to make sense of headphone measurements? I mean as they apply to you? They have electrical and acoustic resonances galore which are tamed through compromise (although there are new DSP solutions emerging). On top of that one folds an HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) into the measured data to account for the response of the human inner and outer ear. The HRTF is a big correction, varying by 15 dB over the human frequency range! The measurement procedure is straight forward but for one thing: what is MY HRTF?

OK. Meausements are amusing but not wholly useful at this level of play. So go to the boards. Lot of great reactions to all these phones. Customers and reviewers raving about "The World's Best Headphone". Unless they're not. The measurements are discovered to change with Serial Number...Probably real. Some are accusing Focal of fraud or physcoacoustic manipulation of the reviewers. Clearly there is a question of QC but then it is discovered the other brands have variations, too. At least the variations appear stable for a given Serial Number.

Jeebuz!

I like 'em and so I go back and buy a pair. I still like 'em.

I guess it's "Welcome back!" to hi end audio.

 

[Sal1950]

I like 'em and so I go back and buy a pair. I still like 'em.

Well you had a good result in the end, awesome. I was afraid it was going to turn into a horror story. LOL
The Utopias are WAY out of my budget range, but I'm in love with my Senn HD 650's so all is good anyway.

You want to end your brain pain and save some $ to boot? There's a guy on Audiogon selling a pair of JBL M2's san's the amp and DSP box for $7,999. If I had the room and money, I'd be on them like stink.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/f...ive=shopping&gclid=COyul8GEntQCFYQkhgodjmwBLg

 

[The Smokester]

...but I'm in love with my Senn HD 650's...

I've had a pair of 650s for over a decade. They were on the boat all the way to Hawaii and back, in the high humidity off the tropics. I love mine, too.

..
...You want to end your brain pain...

I'm thinking, based on the above experience, that there is no such easy way.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Okay. Maybe I am going to pull some chains but since this is the audio science forum... Hasn't technology and understanding risen to the level where I can just look at the specs of all the components and assemble a system which realizes the proverbial "straight wire with gain?" And which I will instantly love? If I like the original performance, then can I assemble a system (modulo room effects) which reproduces it out the far end just on the basis of specs? Or do I need to go through the process of lugging stuff home, living with it as long as I can, and then trying something else. This took me years before I arrived at my previous system which truly was an endpoint for me.

I know I am repeating what has been said. I believe you can rely on specs except for speakers and maybe the amplifier. I also think as already said one should always start system building with the speaker. If you can audition speakers that is a big help. Amps aren't too hard. Usually specs tell enough once you choose a speaker that you can narrow down likely good candidates to a small number.

About headphone measurements, though often thought otherwise I think they are more problematic than speaker/room interactions. What sounds flat with headphones is very far from it. Everyone's ear is differently shaped and unlike rooms you don't have any options for positioning or treatment.

 

[Sal1950]

I believe you can rely on specs except for speakers and maybe the amplifier

Just to add to Blumlein post, the deal with measurements is they have to be detailed enough to learn anything from. If Stereophile has even one redeeming quality it is John Atkinson's measurements. For the large part his review inclusions are mostly complete and honest. One of my fav point-to's for amplifiers was the Spec RPA-W7EX review from March 2016. If you read the subjective review, Ken Micallef waxes poetic over the sound of the RPA and to this day it is a Recommended Component as a Class B amp. But Johns measurements of the amp reveal weaknesses in design that can make it's sound very system-load dependent not to mention the way it radiates strong RFI into surrounding environment/gear. In the light of competent amplifier design we posses today, I find it amazing this amp is being built let alone be a Rec Com? JMHO
So yes measurements can reveal a lot about a components sound, if they're complete enough and honestly presented.

"KM very much liked the sound of the Spec RPA-W7EX. I, however, was disappointed by its measured performance—modern class-D amplifiers, especially those using one of the Hypex modules, measure very much better than this. And with its low input impedance, its dislike of load impedances below 4 ohms, and its high levels of radiated noise, this not an amplifier that can be universally recommended, I feel.—John Atkinson"