I have a question on streaming DSD from Oppo-103 ...

[trioderob]

I have an OPPO-103 which gives me the option to stream DSD from its hdmi port only.
I know about the small black boxes which will take this stream and convert it to IS2.
I want to find a DAC which has is2 inputs and will natively convert this DSD signal from my SACD discs.

while I do not know this for a fact there are several references on line which swear up and down that the ESS chips wont do native conversation.

so, at this point I THINK that what I am looking for is a DAC which uses AKM chips and has IS2 inputs ........ 500 dollar price point

I have heard that the black boxes offer DOP if you buy the right one from China but I am not sure how this effects my search for the DAC

any comments or recommendations

 

[Chester]

Do you mean I2S? It looks like HDMI but they are not the same. I’m not an expert but I doubt you’ll find a DAC that will take HDMI and extract DSD perfectly from it without another box, as you mentioned.

 

[staticV3]

I'm also not aware of any desktop-type DAC that supports DSD via HDMI.

Nor of any box that could convert that to i2s.

In any case, SMSL has AKM DACs below $500 with i2s input: DL300, RAW-DAC1, SU-9 Ultra, DO300EX

Edit:
Just to be clear, this Oppo->HDMI->Converter->i2s->DAC plan is likely a waste of time and money.

 

[trioderob]

I'm also not aware of any desktop-type DAC that supports DSD via HDMI.

Nor of any box that could convert that to i2s.

In any case, SMSL has AKM DACs below $500 with i2s input: DL300, RAW-DAC1, SU-9 Ultra, DO300EX

Edit:
Just to be clear, this Oppo->HDMI->Converter->i2s->DAC plan is likely a waste of time and money.

are you speculating or do you know this for a fact ?
The box does indeed exist and has been proven to output I2S from HDMI dsd

 

[staticV3]

are you speculating or do you know this for a fact ?

I know for a fact that investing into new DACs, native DSD vs PCM, etc. can at best have a barely perceptible impact on sound quality.

And that the money would be 100x better spent on speakers, room treatment, room correction, or some good music

 

[Jimbob54]

are you speculating or do you know this for a fact ?
The box does indeed exist and has been proven to output I2S from HDMI dsd

When someone says "I'm not aware of...." dont you think it's pretty clear they are not stating what follows as fact ?

 

[trioderob]

When someone says "I'm not aware of...." dont you think it's pretty clear they are not stating what follows as fact ?

put yourself in my position - if someone makes a statement : " Just to be clear, this Oppo->HDMI->Converter->i2s->DAC plan is likely a waste of time and money "

should I say ...... " ok - thanks - that's it - I am done "

they don't say why ...... they don't say they have tried it ....... they make just a blanket statement

what should I have asked that would have pleased the Mods ,,,,,, I am new here I want to learn what's allowed and what's not

 

[JustJones]

It's not $500

Bryston BDA3

Features​

• 10 different inputs including 4 HDMI, 2 USB, AES/EBU, S/PDIF RCA, S/PDIF BNC, and Toslink
• PCM support up to 384 kHz / 32 bit
• DSD support up to DSD-256 (x4)
• User selectable upsampling for some inputs
• Separate power supplies for analog and digital circuitry
• Fully discrete Class-A balanced analog outputs
• Control via IR, RS232, IP, or 12V trigger
• Aluminum chassis and metalwork. Machined and anodized aluminum

 

[unpluggged]

I am new here I want to learn what's allowed and what's not

Then start by learning and read the relevant topics. Many of the members here had been lurking for years before even registering. And no need to act as if somebody has deeply offended you. Nobody here owes anybody anything. This is a forum, not a consulting firm.

 

[staticV3]

me ask you this ...... red book cd players ,,,,,, all the same ?

See @NTTY's measurements:

Search results

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[trioderob]

Then start by learning and read the relevant topics. Many of the members here had been lurking for years before even registering. And no need to act as if somebody has deeply offended you. Nobody here owes anybody anything. This is a forum, not a consulting firm.

and how do you know that I did not read threads on here before posting ? isn't obvious I was doing research on this before making a thread - enough with the over aggressive nonsense - you guys are famous around the internet for pounding people instantly into the ground if they don't confirm to the cult ... act like adults

 

[BDWoody]

and how do you know that I did not read threads on here before posting ? isn't obvious I was doing research on this before making a thread - enough with the over aggressive nonsense - you guys are famous around the internet for pounding people instantly into the ground if they don't confirm to the cult ... act like adults

I moved a few posts to one of the catch all threads where it has been well covered. Maybe read through that thread.

You can also stop with the aggressive, defensive tone and silly cult accusations if you don't like the responses.

A cult tries to get your money, and tells you not to ask questions they don't like. Almost sounds like those 'around the Internet' who are threatened by what we have to offer.

Back off the insults or you can get your answers from those who actually do resemble a cult, where belief is all you need. No actual knowledge required.

 

[unpluggged]

and how do you know that I did not read threads on here before posting ?

Omitting your offtopic ranting, this question

I want to find a DAC which has is2 inputs and will natively convert this DSD signal from my SACD discs

clearly shows you did not do enough research on this forum. There is even a tool that helps you find DAC reviews.

I think this topic can be closed before it derails further.

 

[gvl]

You absolutely want one of these small boxes that output DoP. Skip I2S, these small boxes spit out copious amounts of jitter that will go straight to the DAC chip over I2S w/out a chance of being cleaned up earlier. Not to mention you will likely need to tinker with the cable as I2S pinouts are not standardized. As for the DAC itself, look for units that use AKM chips and allow to enable the so-called DSD-direct mode on the DAC chip, and support DoP over coax. The earlier AKM-based RME DAC is one but maybe out of your price range but you can get close with some luck buying used. I think some of the SMSL/Topping units could do that, not sure which models. Without DSD-direct enabled AKM chips will convert DSD to PCM internally, keep in mind with DSD-direct you will need to control volume downstream of the DAC.

 

[Chrispy]

Where are you streaming dsd from particularly and why?

 

[linuxfan]

DSD-over-HDMI is a proprietary method developed by Sony to allow DSD digital data to be output (not "streamed") via an otherwise standard HDMI connection. Only licenced models of Blu-ray players support DSD-over-HDMI - Oppo is one of them.

At the receiving end, the only commercial products which can decode DSD-over-HDMI are Home Theatre Receivers. I don't believe there are any standalone DAC's which can decode DSD-over-HDMI ...
but there are "HDMI audio extractors" on eBay which will convert DSD-over-HDMI to I2S-over-HDMI, which can then be fed to any DAC which has an I2S input, such as the upper model Topping and SMSL DAC's.

Beware, not all HDMI audio extractors can do this conversion, only specific models such as this -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353354399159

The question remains, though, what is your DSD source? If you are simply playing SACD's on your Oppo, you will be hard pressed to obtain any audible benefit by using an external DAC - the Oppo internal DAC is very good.

 

[Chrispy]

DSD-over-HDMI is a proprietary method developed by Sony to allow DSD digital data to be output (not "streamed") via an otherwise standard HDMI connection. Only licenced models of Blu-ray players support DSD-over-HDMI - Oppo is one of them.

At the receiving end, the only commercial products which can decode DSD-over-HDMI are Home Theatre Receivers. I don't believe there are any standalone DAC's which can decode DSD-over-HDMI ...
but there are "HDMI audio extractors" on eBay which will convert DSD-over-HDMI to I2S-over-HDMI, which can then be fed to any DAC which has an I2S input, such as the upper model Topping and SMSL DAC's.

Beware, not all HDMI audio extractors can do this conversion, only specific models such as this -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353354399159

The question remains, though, what is your DSD source? If you are simply playing SACD's on your Oppo, you will be hard pressed to obtain any audible benefit by using an external DAC - the Oppo internal DAC is very good.

Sony bluray players offer that too, I have several. Are the hdmi extractors capable of multich? Pretty much only reason I use sacd/dsd is for the multich mixes available that way...

 

[JSmith]

I have an OPPO-103 which gives me the option to stream DSD from its hdmi port only.
I know about the small black boxes which will take this stream and convert it to IS2.
I want to find a DAC which has is2 inputs and will natively convert this DSD signal from my SACD discs.

If you really want to bother with this and do it properly, you need to tap into the I2S output internally... best to use this for an Oppo 103;

However double check the pin out used and whether that matches the DAC you plan to use with it.

I agree with others though, this is a waste of time generally speaking, as there won't be an audible benefit.


JSmith

 

[raif71]

I have an OPPO-103 which gives me the option to stream DSD from its hdmi port only.
I know about the small black boxes which will take this stream and convert it to IS2.
I want to find a DAC which has is2 inputs and will natively convert this DSD signal from my SACD discs.

while I do not know this for a fact there are several references on line which swear up and down that the ESS chips wont do native conversation.

so, at this point I THINK that what I am looking for is a DAC which uses AKM chips and has IS2 inputs ........ 500 dollar price point

I have heard that the black boxes offer DOP if you buy the right one from China but I am not sure how this effects my search for the DAC

any comments or recommendations

I have the blackbox hdmi to i2s converter and instead of oppo-103, I used a Sony. For a DAC I used a Gustard X16 . Contrary to what you believe the ESS 9068as chip does accept native dsd as shown in my post

I2S via HDMI pinout wiring.

Update. I confirmed that native DSD over HDMI I2S works on my DAC. So this implies that the issue I am having is with the HDMI audio extractor. I ordered another one, this model supports DoP, but I am still adamant about getting the DSD over HDMI I2S to work. Will report back.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[phofman]

IMO any HDMI-I2S extractor capable of higher samplerates can extract DSD DOP as it is a standard 176.4/24 PCM stream from the HDMI extractor POV. Of course the I2S receiver must know how to handle the incoming DOP.

Non-DOP DSD cannot be transferred over standard I2S as it uses different signals (DSD L, R, BCLK vs. PCM/I2S data, LRCLK, BCLK). Of course the LVDS lines can do not care what type of signal they carry so it's possible to transfer native DSD signal over I2S-designed LVDS lines. But again the receiver must know it's receiving DSD signal instead of I2S.

I have yet to see an HDMI audio extractor which can output native DSD format using its I2S output pins.