Hypothetical: 2 Revel F208s vs 2 Revel F206s and 2 SVS PB-2000s

[QMuse]

Ok, I see your argument. Not buying it, though. I believe the smidgen stronger motor will make that a non-factor (keeping all things equal) compared to the inherent advantages I've listed.
If you want to make me believe you, you will have to impress me in a dedicated thread!

Ok, let me give one more attempt: as frequency raises drivers get's smaller, so obviously larger is not always better. Once you introduce a sub in your speaker and task it with low bass it may be that smaller woofer would better do the job in higher bass than larger woofer who's strength is only low bass which sub anyhow does better.

I would glady try to impress you but you should first demonstrate you're cute enough to deserve it.

 

[Absolute]

Ok, let me give one more attempt: as frequency raises drivers get's smaller, so obviously larger is not always better. Once you introduce a sub in your speaker and task it with low bass it may be that smaller woofer would better do the job in higher bass than larger woofer who's strength is only low bass which sub anyhow does better.

I would glady try to impress you but you should first demonstrate you're cute enough to deserve it.

 

[QMuse]

View attachment 62989

Ok, I don't want to sound picky but let's at least wait until you do haircut and teeth whitening.

 

[Ron Texas]

Around here most would say get the 206's and subs. However, many of those are technically competent and will not have a lot of trouble integrating a sub. I once posed a slightly different version of the question. It was whether I should get a pair of F208's so that I would not have to bother with subs. One of the techniclly skilled members showed me a graphic of how an F208 falls far short of the Harmann house curve in the bass. I suppose EQ would help, but that can only go so far and it costs headroom.

When I bought a single Dynamo W1000 sub to go with my LS50's (November, 2018) I wasted the first 5 months until getting a microphone and learning to use REW. I found to avoid bass directionality the crossover point had to be so low that there was a dip in the response. Then I bought 2 Rythmik L12's in Februrary of this year. That allows a much higher crossover frequency and the directionality problem is gone. I am still finding ways to improve the setup. The point is integrating a subwoofer isn't a trivial enterprise. Perhaps it allows really good results with bookshelf speakers at a decent price.

All that said, with the F206 one could probably run it full range which is simpler than finding some way to high pass the mains.

Some people never get it right and only use their subs for movies.

 

[QMuse]

Around here most would say get the 206's and subs. However, many of those are technically competent and will not have a lot of trouble integrating a sub. I once posed a slightly different version of the question. It was whether I should get a pair of F208's so that I would not have to bother with subs. One of the techniclly skilled members showed me a graphic of how an F208 falls far short of the Harmann house curve in the bass. I suppose EQ would help, but that can only go so far and it costs headroom.

When I bought a single Dynamo W1000 sub to go with my LS50's (November, 2018) I wasted the first 5 months until getting a microphone and learning to use REW. I found to avoid bass directionality the crossover point had to be so low that there was a dip in the response. Then I bought 2 Rythmik L12's in Februrary of this year. That allows a much higher crossover frequency and the directionality problem is gone. I am still finding ways to improve the setup. The point is integrating a subwoofer isn't a trivial enterprise. Perhaps it allows really good results with bookshelf speakers at a decent price.

All that said, with the F206 one could probably run it full range which is simpler than finding some way to high pass the mains.

Some people never get it right and only use their subs for movies.

I agree with pretty much everything you said but I would vote my opinion that mains are better to be high-passed in pretty much every scenario. Sad truth with that is it's hard to implement that without multichannel DACs which are expensive so you're left with AV processors and there the performance is mostly not stellar. Not to mention that some users need it only for stereo so why bother with multichannel. In other words, not many good options exist in the market..

 

[Ron Texas]

I agree with pretty much everything you said but I would vote my opinion that mains are better to be high-passed in pretty much every scenario. Sad truth with that is it's hard to implement that without multichannel DACs which are expensive so you're left with AV processors and there the performance is mostly not stellar. Not to mention that some users need it only for stereo so why bother with multichannel. In other words, not many good options exist in the market..

There are alternatives. I use a Crown XLS 1502 which has a built in high pass filter. Harrison Labs makes inexpensive passive filters. Running LS50's full range with a sub is not a good option.

 

[Dgob]

Hi All,

I have a small to medium (15' x 13') listening room and am considering monitors. I intend to get a Benchmark AHB2 amp and the choice of speakers that I have come up with seems to boil down to either the Revel F208 or the Wharfedale Elysian 2 stand mounts.

I have a pair of Velodyne DD12 subs, but I'm seeking to just use a pair of monitors for the sake of my significant other and listening space. Has anyone any suggestions on which of the two speakers might best serve my audio needs, which include the need to come as close as possible to full frequency range and neutrality/accuracy?

 

[Bear123]

Hi All,

I have a small to medium (15' x 13') listening room and am considering monitors. I intend to get a Benchmark AHB2 amp and the choice of speakers that I have come up with seems to boil down to either the Revel F208 or the Wharfedale Elysian 2 stand mounts.

I have a pair of Velodyne DD12 subs, but I'm seeking to just use a pair of monitors for the sake of my significant other and listening space. Has anyone any suggestions on which of the two speakers might best serve my audio needs, which include the need to come as close as possible to full frequency range and neutrality/accuracy?

Either speaker(I personally prefer towers, as to avoid dinky little speakers balancing on stands you have to spend money on), along with a pair of good subs, bass management, and eq.

Such as Rythmik, PSA, SVS, Funk. It sounds like you might be looking for music only setup, in which case sealed should work well(not better, just don't need the advantages of ported).

High fidelity(bass management, eq) 2 channel gear is extremely difficult to find, so an easy and cost effective solution for bass management and eq, along with modern day connectivity and functionality might be something like a Denon X36/3700. Will drive your benchmark with an audible transparent signal(in real life).

 

[Dgob]

Either speaker(I personally prefer towers, as to avoid dinky little speakers balancing on stands you have to spend money on), along with a pair of good subs, bass management, and eq.

Such as Rythmik, PSA, SVS, Funk. It sounds like you might be looking for music only setup, in which case sealed should work well(not better, just don't need the advantages of ported).

High fidelity(bass management, eq) 2 channel gear is extremely difficult to find, so an easy and cost effective solution for bass management and eq, along with modern day connectivity and functionality might be something like a Denon X36/3700. Will drive your benchmark with an audible transparent signal(in real life).

I'm currently using a Topping Pre90, Topping Ext90 and Topping D90SE dac. That fronts a Marantz transport and I feel very satisfied with that side of things.

However, I want to step up from my Talon Hawk/Martin Logan 23.5 back end. That underpins my hope of getting a Benchmark AHB2 and one of the identified monitors. Higher fidelity is a key issue for me and so given that my stereo system needs to fire across the width of my listening room and that I have marital constraints, I was thinking that both the Revel F208 and Wharfedale Elysian 2 might offer performance across the frequency range without the need for subs. They both play sub 40Hz and with my in-room options, I believe that might give me all that I need.

So I suppose my concerns are really around if anyone thinks that the Benchmark won't be able to optimise either speaker and/or (most importantly) if anyone could suggest reasons for selecting one set of these speakers (or some complete alternative) over the other? Oh yes, and whether anyone thinks that I would find the bass performance of either intolerable?

Thanks

 

[Dgob]

Sorry Bear123, I should also have mentioned that the Wharfedale's would come with custom made stands.

 

[Bear123]

Sorry Bear123, I should also have mentioned that the Wharfedale's would come with custom made stands.

I brought up subs and bass management since high fidelity is an important goal for you. Bass management and subs in almost all cases is necessary for high fidelity. A Denon AVR and subs will almost always yield much higher fidelity than any 2.0 system. 120 dB SINAD is almost meaningless in comparison.

 

[Dgob]

I brought up subs and bass management since high fidelity is an important goal for you. Bass management and subs in almost all cases is necessary for high fidelity. A Denon AVR and subs will almost always yield much higher fidelity than any 2.0 system. 120 dB SINAD is almost meaningless in comparison.

I appreciate that, BUT the noted constraints are the key reason why I am not using my Velodyne DD12 subs. That is the underlying challenge that I am seeking to overcome with minimum (in unavoidable) impact on the fidelity.

The situation means that I will in fact be selling my Velodyne's, Talon Hawk's and Martin Logan 23.5 - once I get a decent system to permanently replace them. The Velodyne's are fantastic for room eq and mine are matched with a modified 23.5 to blend with the Talon monitors in a seamless full-range performance. I am genuinely aware of the challenge that I now face, but (outside of divorce and/or relocation) them's unfortunately the breaks. Just trying to do the best within those confines, and so advice much appreciated.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Sorry Bear123, I should also have mentioned that the Wharfedale's would come with custom made stands.

Yes, so you save the additional cost but, in exchange, lose the useful volume between the speaker and the floor.

 

[Dgob]

Yes, so you save the additional cost but, in exchange, lose the useful volume between the speaker and the floor.

Thanks. So, would that be a clear case for favouring the Revel F208's?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks. So, would that be a clear case for favouring the Revel F208's?

IMHO, yes, but that is hypothetical since I am very familiar with the F208 and have not heard the Wharfedale.

 

[Dgob]

IMHO, yes, but that is hypothetical since I am very familiar with the F208 and have not heard the Wharfedale.

Thanks, I haven't heard either speaker myself. However, the reviews and specs on both are brilliant. One advantage of the Wharfedale's might be that I can home trial them for a month before pulling the trigger. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any equivalent option for the Revels over here in England.

I suppose that's a fundamental reason for my hope that people would give me opinions on both for my given desire and context. Ideally, on experience with both but equally valid with info of experience with either. Speaking of which, what is your view of the F208's when used without a sub?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Speaking of which, what is your view of the F208's when used without a sub?

Depends on your personal preferences including your musical tastes. I would classify them as full range but adding a sub, imho, is advantageous (as it is for almost any loudspeaker).

 

[Dgob]

Depends on your personal preferences including your musical tastes. I would classify them as full range but adding a sub, imho, is advantageous (as it is for almost any loudspeaker).

My tastes are fairly wide but I spend much of my time listening to jazz and classical. Circumstance and this site led me to try to rebuild my system to attain the same or better than I had before. Regarding CD playback, I have achieved that with the introduction of the Topping equipment.

However, I have been using a pair of KRK Rokit 8 G4's as they are relatively cheap and (hissing aside!!) can perform well on a pair of bespoke stands. Yet they cannot reveal the level of low end detail that the Topping equipment or my old back end could manage. A case in point is the acoustic queues and reflections that just aren't as present as they should be. For example, on Abdullah Ibrahim's 'Water from an Ancient Well' (one of my test tracks), a large amount of such detail is just too limited. I feel certain that the F208's or the Wharfedale's will correct that. It's just a case of which will bring me nearest to full fidelity?

That drive is also what's encouraging my consideration of the Benchmark AHB2 to drive them. Madness?

 

[Robh3606]

I have a pair of F206's I use with a subwoofer and it's a great combo. My preamp is set-up for 2.1 listening so I use the crossover in the preamp and use the LFE input on the sub.

Rob

 

[Dgob]

I have a pair of F206's I use with a subwoofer and it's a great combo. My preamp is set-up for 2.1 listening so I use the crossover in the preamp and use the LFE input on the sub.

Rob

Yes, I've heard great things about the F206's with subs. Do you think that the F208's would however work without subs?

That really is my challenge. Apart from their performance measurements, the Toppings and Benchmark have a far greater WAF than my old set-up. This largely due to their relatively diminutive sizes. That also underpins my use of the KRK Rokit 8.4 active monitors - no need for a power amp and its dreaded space invasion.