How much power and SPL's do people actually need in their homes?

[restorer-john]

Flim and the BBs "Tricycle" is a good track for extreme dynamics

It certainly is. I remember hearing the original DMP release back in the day and thinking "this music is crap, but the recording is fantastic". Decades later the disc has become a bit of a "Fast Car" or "Bird On The Wire" to me, but I have (perhaps through repetition) come to actually like the disc.

I really miss the care and attention put into recordings and technology like Tom Jung did. (read the interview for Flim and the BBs)

Tom Jung of DMP: Making Musical Sense

Tom Jung's career has been dotted with numbers. In 1969, he and a partner founded Sound 80, a Minneapolis recording studio named by an advertising wizard who had previously conjured up the appellation Cure 81 for a Hormel ham, supposedly while sipping Vat 69 scotch. Some years later, engineers...

www.stereophile.com

 

[er|κzvio1in]

There is a saying in the American muscle car crowd.... "I rather have the power and not have to use than not having the power when I need it".

The American muscle car crowd which is of course well known for their intellectual prowes and their magnificent contributions to the advancement of mankind

 

[restorer-john]

The American muscle car crowd which is of course well known for their intellectual prowes and their magnificent contributions to the advancement of mankind

The word is prowess...

I'll take a ball-tearing, classic, American V8 powered car over just about anything, if you pay the fuel bill.

 

[er|κzvio1in]

The word is prowess...

I'll take a ball-tearing, classic, American V8 powered car over just about anything, if you pay the fuel bill.

And I'll take 1000 Watt power channel class A monoblocs if someone else pays for them

 

[Schollaudio]

The people who think 24 bit audio is superior to 16 bit obviously need a system capable of producing 140db to be able to hear all the extra detail.

It's not so much detail but the way they remixed the songs to build in loudness. School and Pigs now have an excellent layered loudness that continues to increase well into the song.

 

[Schollaudio]

I would not accept that these numbers flashing on that amplifier, if in fact they are even accurate, represent what you need in your own room. When I saw this video, I tried measuring myself with a scope in my own room with the same track. I only got 20-30V peaks when playing at what I thought was loud. The track doesn't even have an extremely high crest factor; with other more dynamic tracks playing loud I get peaks more like 50V. Of course it depends on room, how loud you like it, speaker sensitivity, etc. The only way to really know is to check on your own. And then IMO it is a good idea to go well above what you determine that you need. Then you can rest easy regarding clipping. At least until some other equipment manufacturer posts another video!

I have a power amp with both meters and a clipping indicator LED. The LED flickers while the meters are cruising at 20watts.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I have a power amp with both meters and a clipping indicator LED. The LED flickers while the meters are cruising at 20watts.

Which amp is that?

 

[dlaloum]

The word is prowess...

I'll take a ball-tearing, classic, American V8 powered car over just about anything, if you pay the fuel bill.

The Germans made some pretty decent V8's too.... used to drive a Merc 500SEC - when you put your foot down, it definitely "went"... and the needle on the petrol gauge could be seen dropping visibly!

 

[Schollaudio]

Which amp is that?

fisher BA-6000 which has 60V rails.

A good way to know where an amp is at within its power limits is to scope the rail voltage and scope the signal while playing music and this doesn't take into account current draw. Also, this method mainly displays the amp's peak output signal. Determining output power below the peak is a guestimation and the congestion of the signal makes it harder still. So, we can only know when an amp is in destress if the rails sag and it sounds bad or have another type of analyzer and some testers have that.

Anyway, as to the OT. Find a recording that's liked and known and play it to levels that may be too loud and that's the peak a person needs and the amp\power they have is right for them. One of my favorites is Lyle Lovitt "Joshua Judges Ruth" which has a good dynamic range for pop, rock, country.

 

[dlaloum]

fisher BA-6000 which has 60V rails.

A good way to know where an amp is at within its power limits is to scope the rail voltage and scope the signal while playing music and this doesn't take into account current draw. Also, this method mainly displays the amp's peak output signal. Determining output power below the peak is a guestimation and the congestion of the signal makes it harder still. So, we can only know when an amp is in destress if the rails sag and it sounds bad or have another type of analyzer and some testers have that.

Anyway, as to the OT. Find a recording that's liked and known and play it to levels that may be too loud and that's the peak a person needs and the amp\power they have is right for them. One of my favorites is Lyle Lovitt "Joshua Judges Ruth" which has a good dynamic range for pop, rock, country.

I have not hit audible clipping since the days when I was still at high school, and my amp was a 15W hand me down...

On the other hand, I have heard anomalies that I believe are down to current related issues, which are much more subtle....

 

[Schollaudio]

I have not hit audible clipping since the days when I was still at high school, and my amp was a 15W hand me down...

On the other hand, I have heard anomalies that I believe are down to current related issues, which are much more subtle....

Then you found (know) just how much you need! TBO over 90% of my listening is well under 15 watts too.

 

[davidc]

my phone says im listening at 76db ave with 87 peak @ 9' . This is where I'm at most of the time. I do have some moments were I go much louder though. I got enough power to go fairly clean loud, 3-way dsp active at 500=500-250

Your phone is not accurate. it might be a couple dB off, it might be 15 dB off

 

[dlaloum]

Then you found (know) just how much you need! TBO over 90% of my listening is well under 15 watts too.

Yeah 90% of my listening is under 4w!

Which is a bit of a shocker... looked at from my beliefs of 20+ years ago!

 

[Mr. Widget]

Yeah 90% of my listening is under 4w!

Which is a bit of a shocker... looked at from my beliefs of 20+ years ago!

Probably true for most of us... but 40+ years ago when I was young and stupid I was regularly clipping 350wpc amps and the speakers were large JBLs with fairly high sensitivity.

 

[Jaxjax]

Your phone is not accurate. it might be a couple dB off, it might be 15 dB off

I figured so... just a quick & dirty app. Suppose I could do it on my Dirac live..? Havent ran it in forever it seems.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Your phone is not accurate. it might be a couple dB off, it might be 15 dB off

That's not true.

Using an iPhone with the NIOSH app is +/- 2 dB which I consider pretty spot on.

Sound Level Meter App | NIOSH | CDC

The NIOSH Sound Level Meter app combines the best features of professional sound levels meters and noise dosimeters into a simple, easy-to-use package

www.cdc.gov

 

[davidc]

That's not true.

Using an iPhone with the NIOSH app is +/- 2 dB which I consider pretty spot on.

Sound Level Meter App | NIOSH | CDC

The NIOSH Sound Level Meter app combines the best features of professional sound levels meters and noise dosimeters into a simple, easy-to-use package

www.cdc.gov

Ok, agreed...sort of. For the 50% of the US with iPhones, it will work. For the rest of the world, with Androids, no. Also, while the company says they've calibrated it for the iPhone, I really need to see proof that all iPhone mics in alll models are off the same sensitivity and frequency response, or that the app adjusts itself to all different models. I could not find that info on thier website. In addition, while I am not an iPhone user, doesn't the phone have certain settings that would adjust mic sensitivity? Like adaptive sound?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ok, agreed...sort of. For the 50% of the US with iPhones, it will work. For the rest of the world, with Androids, no. Also, while the company says they've calibrated it for the iPhone, I really need to see proof that all iPhone mics in alll models are off the same sensitivity and frequency response, or that the app adjusts itself to all different models. I could not find that info on thier website. In addition, while I am not an iPhone user, doesn't the phone have certain settings that would adjust mic sensitivity? Like adaptive sound?

As I read somewhere (maybe via the link I posted, can't remember) the app turns off all settings and gain raw access to the mic.

Oh, and I'll gladly provide you with proof that all iPhone microphones have the same sensitivity and FR. Just give me five min..

(I only knew this about the NIOSH app and iPhone because I was curious when I downloaded the app, so found the link)

 

[davidc]

As I read somewhere (maybe via the link I posted, can't remember) the app turns off all settings and gain raw access to the mic.

Oh, and I'll gladly provide you with proof that all iPhone microphones have the same sensitivity and FR. Just give me five min..

(I only knew this about the NIOSH app and iPhone because I was curious when I downloaded the app, so found the link)

Yes, I'd be really interested in that. And also curious is as to whether it uses all the mics on the phone or just one. And are there directions about how to orient the phone to get an accurate reading.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Ok, agreed...sort of. For the 50% of the US with iPhones, it will work. For the rest of the world, with Androids, no. Also, while the company says they've calibrated it for the iPhone, I really need to see proof that all iPhone mics in alll models are off the same sensitivity and frequency response, or that the app adjusts itself to all different models. I could not find that info on thier website. In addition, while I am not an iPhone user, doesn't the phone have certain settings that would adjust mic sensitivity? Like adaptive sound?

I compared NIOSH on an iPhone to my proper sound level meter. It was close above 100Hz, below that it dropped off rapidly being about -6dB by 70Hz. So you can't use it for subwoofer setup.