Help me pick a great SACD player.

[tmtomh]

From what I understand about SACD, is that the actual drive has to have a Sony chip to even read the SACD disc layer, so there's no easy way to, for example, get a USB disc drive and hack it with your computer like was done with DVD. Indeed, Sony was careful not to even license SACD to devices that would output the DSD over a digital signal until quite recently using encrypted channels like HDMI can achieve.

Honestly, the easiest method is to use an old PS3 that has the SACD drive. There's a lot of information on which PS3 models you need to buy and it's more reliable than guessing with DVD players. It's pretty easy to flash a modified firmware and then run an SACD extract program. Once you do this, it's quite easy. Just make sure the PS3 is on the network, run the program, insert the disc then use your computer to rip the DSF files from the disc.

I think this information is not quite correct. There is an easily searchable list of compatible players, and the Sonys are Blu-Ray players from 2012. Here's a link to the whole list, including Sony, Pioneer, Cambridge, Oppo, and other brands:

Down the Rabbit Hole of SACD Ripping and DSD Extraction

I’m a firm believer in fair use when it comes to audio media — if you bought it, you own it, and you’re free to do with it as you please — as long as it’s for your personal enjoyment and you’re not trying to sell it illegally for profit. Apparently the code writers/hackers in the world agree...

www.psaudio.com

Secondly, those Sony Blu-Ray players are dirt cheap on eBay and other second-hand markets, whereas the PS3's are more expensive

Thirdly, you can't just use any PS3 - it has to have a particular firmware version (or earlier), and you have to rely on sellers to know this informatino (and the correct firmware-version PS3s that were never updated command a price premium because they are relatively rare since most units' firmware was updated over the years).

Finally. the PS3 units run quite hot - people regularly mod them with bolted-on fans and such to try to keep them cooler when they're ripping.

So the Sony units are easy to identify (model number, no special firmware version requirement for most of them), very cheap, and run cool. And if they ever break, you can get a new one for $30 or so.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

Secondly, those Sony Blu-Ray players are dirt cheap on eBay and other second-hand markets, whereas the PS3's are more expensive

Thirdly, you can't just use any PS3 - it has to have a particular firmware version (or earlier), and you have to rely on sellers to know this informatino (and the correct firmware-version PS3s that were never updated command a price premium because they are relatively rare since most units' firmware was updated over the years).

Finally. the PS3 units run quite hot - people regularly mod them with bolted-on fans and such to try to keep them cooler when they're ripping.

On finding a compatible PS3, I suppose yes, they can be more expensive. However the firmware is not an issue any longer. I bought my used PS3 a couple years ago for about $70 and it was on the most up-to-date firmware and I was able to get the "jailbreak" running without much trouble.

On the issue of heat, never been an issue. I can't imagine ripping an SACD is harder on the processor that using it to play games as it was designed. They certainly can get warm but I've never worried about it.

 

[Chrispy]

On finding a compatible PS3, I suppose yes, they can be more expensive. However the firmware is not an issue any longer. I bought my used PS3 a couple years ago for about $70 and it was on the most up-to-date firmware and I was able to get the "jailbreak" running without much trouble.

On the issue of heat, never been an issue. I can't imagine ripping an SACD is harder on the processor that using it to play games as it was designed. They certainly can get warm but I've never worried about it.

Hmmm....what model was it with what firmware version? Maybe I can find a use for my ps3 after all.....

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

Hmmm....what model was it with what firmware version? Maybe I can find a use for my ps3 after all.....

You can find out if your model is compatible here:

http://ps3sacd.com/faq.html#_Toc180147566

It doesn't matter what firmware you are on (mine was v4 something) but you need to go back to 3.55 to rip SACDs. Essentially you need to exploit it from here, then there's a flag that allows a developer mode or something that you can then use to downgrade to whatever version you want.

Maybe I can put together a guide if I can remember what I did...it was a couple years ago and once you do it you never have to fuss with it again.

 

[tmtomh]

On finding a compatible PS3, I suppose yes, they can be more expensive. However the firmware is not an issue any longer. I bought my used PS3 a couple years ago for about $70 and it was on the most up-to-date firmware and I was able to get the "jailbreak" running without much trouble.

On the issue of heat, never been an issue. I can't imagine ripping an SACD is harder on the processor that using it to play games as it was designed. They certainly can get warm but I've never worried about it.

Glad to hear the firmware issue was solved - thanks!

 

[stvnharr]

I’d welcome some advice. I’m considering getting a SACD player. I mostly listen to classical where the material is on average better recorded and prepared without all the modern loudness war antics. A good proportion of the classical CDs are hybrid CD-SACD versions. The number of manufacturers making SACD players is ever shrinking. From what I can see the transport and DAC contribute little to the sonics (as both these elements are highly competent) in the audio chain but it is the analogue output stage than can make a discernible difference in sonic quality. Forgive me, I am not electronically qualified, nor an expert in audio acoustics but I do value your collective advice which is grounded in solid science. I have seen a number of SACD machines but can’t determine from their interiors which have been built using quality parts and well designed analogue stages. What would you pick between say:
Denon DCD-1600NE
Denon DCD-2500NE
Denon DCD-A110
Oppo-205

Hi Benton, Given that you live way way way out at the end of the road, you mostly need something that will work and that you can buy in Canada. What is your budget? And I would think that you would want a reliable player that will be guaranteed to work right out of the box.
The Denon players are all good, and you can likely get one in Canada. Oppo is out of business. There are Marantz players that cost half the cost of the SA-10, or less, and are just as good. There are also the Yamaha players that are also good and fairly reliable. I like Marantz players, but that's just me. BTW, I also mostly listen to classical music and Marantz players have served me well for years.

 

[bo_knows]

DCD-A110

That would be my pick.

 

[billyjoebob]

Can you extract files as DSF or whatever, or make an ISO from the disk? Foobar2000 happily plays and converts DSF or ISO files.
(I assume protection can be bypassed)

While foobar will play the DSF & ISO files, it will not export DSD audio.
It will be converted to PCM.

 

[bkdc]

My old Playstation 3 died, and it became cheaper to buy a second-hand Oppo BDP-103 for ripping purposes than to hunt for an old Playstation 3. this was at a time when used PS3s for SACD ripping were selling at a premium on eBay. The PS3 didn't have effective cooling and definitely ran hot hot hot. I ripped my PS3 to death... and it didn't take long for it to die. I guess PS3s are no longer that valuable. But I don't think it's the smart long term buy for long term ripping. I don't trust one to last.

 

[Sal1950]

But I don't think it's the smart long term buy for long term ripping. I don't trust one to last.

Amen, just buy an old Sony on ebay for $30-40 and be set forever.

 

[Deleted member 39414]

TLDR; buy a <$100 sony bluray that does the trick unless you need analog outs in which case here’s what I have…

I have an old marantz universal disc player (<$500) which handles SACDs perfectly fine. The nice feature being that it supports analog 5.1 out vs my Yamaha 1000 (<$900) which only supports coaxial for redbook layer and two channel via analog out-it also only does 2ch for SACDs. The yammy looks prettier to me and seems to be built better in terms of feel/polish. marantz products all look/feel cheap to me-purely subjective but “ew, ugly” is my entirely superficial litmus test for all things.

a couple of misconceptions on this thread to clear up:

many SACDs have multichannel, 2 ch high res, and red book layers. sometimes They’re all mastered by the same person for that specific disc, many times the surround version is taken from an earlier mastering because it’s cheaper and most of the buying audience from what I understand doesn’t bother with surround. Wait, 2ch non-red book sacd?! Yes, I understand how crazy this sounds on this forum and how people can’t hear past 12khz at the average age of this forum but the purpose of the sacd is often just that they’re mastered as a sort of showcase by the engineer to audio nerds vs made to sound bass-y on a car stereo or cheap Bluetooth speakers. again, no idea if it’s better but it they are audibly different.

your ps3 which I once had can play them but from what I recall there are some gotchas here http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html and a really annoying fan noise which isn’t quite va2 Dreamcast level but still annoying.

SACDs are annoying but fairly easy to rip with old hardware and a laptop, plenty of guides. Might require one uses windows so that’s a no-go for me-i haven’t in 25 years of writing code and won’t start now.

used sacd player market goes from super cheap to massively expensive with the primary reason being full surround analog out or hdmi / 2-ch only AND known ripping workaround capabilities. also, most look super ugly Imo.

 

[TonyP]

I’d welcome some advice. I’m considering getting a SACD player. I mostly listen to classical where the material is on average better recorded and prepared without all the modern loudness war antics. A good proportion of the classical CDs are hybrid CD-SACD versions. The number of manufacturers making SACD players is ever shrinking. From what I can see the transport and DAC contribute little to the sonics (as both these elements are highly competent) in the audio chain but it is the analogue output stage than can make a discernible difference in sonic quality. Forgive me, I am not electronically qualified, nor an expert in audio acoustics but I do value your collective advice which is grounded in solid science. I have seen a number of SACD machines but can’t determine from their interiors which have been built using quality parts and well designed analogue stages. What would you pick between say:
Denon DCD-1600NE
Denon DCD-2500NE
Denon DCD-A110
Oppo-205

So I own the Denon DCD-A110 and believe it to be very high quality.

 

[Trell]

Nothing, but the SACD layer doesn't sound any different to the CD layer so it's not worth getting a dedicated player just for that - unless they are also multi-channel and you want that facility.

The layers are independent and can be very different. Sometimes different masters is used for the CD and stereo SACD layer.

I’ve a hybrid SACD where the SACD stereo layer OS just the singer and his grand piano while the CD layer has other musicians mixed in.

For me the multichannel layer of SACD is what of important to me.

I use my old OPPO BDP-93 as a transport only via HDMI.

 

[dadregga]

Sometimes different masters is used for the CD and stereo SACD layer.

I’ve a hybrid SACD where the SACD stereo layer OS just the singer and his grand piano while the CD layer has other musicians mixed in.

It should be noted that this is *vanishingly* rare.

99.99% of the time the RBCD and SACD stereo layers are mastered from the same source.

 

[Trell]

It should be noted that this is *vanishingly* rare.

99.99% of the time the RBCD and SACD stereo layers are mastered from the same source.

It is, but nonetheless I've a few of them myself. This is also reason to be vary of comparing the CD layer with the SACD stereo layer unless you know it is from the same master.

 

[stvnharr]

I’m none the wise after reading many other pages and other websites on SACD ripping. How does a Luddite who struggles with computers, software and such like find a simple solution. Buy some old DVD player, hope it works, configure it somehow, insert a pen drive with some flakey software that most of that even the techies can’t get to work reliably. Is there not an easily available one box solution to ripping SACD if the move is away from physical discs and people recommend downloads instead? I can rip a CD using DBpweramp in minutes to my laptop - what is the equivalent process for simpletons?

What I don’t understand is that aside from NativDSD, there aren’t any other DSD download sites. Most of the classical hybrid SACDs with multichannel for sale aren’t downloadable in DSD/DSF…you can only. It the physical disc.

Good God, why is this a nightmare?

Hi Benton,
Yes, it's true most of the posts in this thread are not very helpful to your situation.
And yes, NativeDSD is the only download site for DSD files. Not only that, but they are expensive. However, once you hear a native DSD256 recording played back as that, you will be sold on it. Then again, you can download native 96hz/24bit from eClassical and get something really good too. But even there the downloads are generally more expensive than the sacd, or cd, of the same title.
And another yes for the HiFi Haven thread referred to in Post #33. I have been reading that and am about to embark on ripping my sacd's. I'm no computer whiz, so I expect difficulties. But once one understands what is going on in that thread, you learn that ripping sacd is 100% successful. If nothing else, it provides a great backup.

But first, you need a player and some music. And as for a player, a smart purchase would be one in which the player has a full featured DAC that can play DSD files, preferrably up to DSD256 files. That way, if you ever go to ripping, etc., you already have a DAC on hand and don't have to fret about buying one.

Steve

 

[michaelgordonharper]

So I own the Denon DCD-A110 and believe it to be very high quality.

Hi Tony,
Have you ever compared it with the Marantz players, for example like the SA 10?

 

[michaelgordonharper]

I’d welcome some advice. I’m considering getting a SACD player. I mostly listen to classical where the material is on average better recorded and prepared without all the modern loudness war antics. A good proportion of the classical CDs are hybrid CD-SACD versions. The number of manufacturers making SACD players is ever shrinking. From what I can see the transport and DAC contribute little to the sonics (as both these elements are highly competent) in the audio chain but it is the analogue output stage than can make a discernible difference in sonic quality. Forgive me, I am not electronically qualified, nor an expert in audio acoustics but I do value your collective advice which is grounded in solid science. I have seen a number of SACD machines but can’t determine from their interiors which have been built using quality parts and well designed analogue stages. What would you pick between say:
Denon DCD-1600NE
Denon DCD-2500NE
Denon DCD-A110
Oppo-205

Hi
Have you Demoed any?

 

[Gorgonzola]

This has been a pretty dismal discussion: practically nothing in terms of modestly priced, dedicated CD/SACD players.

I would like something to replace my approx. 20 y/o Sony SCD-CE775. That Sony is an awkward to use, multi-channel SACD whose sound quality is far from great. (Redbook out to my Topping D90 definitely sound better than the Sony's analog stereo output.)

I have absolutely no interest in jumping through the hoops of ripping. I just want a simple, good sounding player for my stereo system, but there is essentially nothing below US$1000. The NAD C 546BEE look like it might be the ticket but it's no longer for sale by NAD.

 

[BentonF]

The NAD is not an SACD player- cd only. Same boat as you. So few disc spinners and of those, little that play SACD.