Help me pick a great SACD player.

[Trell]

Universal players and use them as a transport for SACD.

 

[JaccoW]

From what I understand about SACD, is that the actual drive has to have a Sony chip to even read the SACD disc layer, so there's no easy way to, for example, get a USB disc drive and hack it with your computer like was done with DVD. Indeed, Sony was careful not to even license SACD to devices that would output the DSD over a digital signal until quite recently using encrypted channels like HDMI can achieve.

Honestly, the easiest method is to use an old PS3 that has the SACD drive. There's a lot of information on which PS3 models you need to buy and it's more reliable than guessing with DVD players. It's pretty easy to flash a modified firmware and then run an SACD extract program. Once you do this, it's quite easy. Just make sure the PS3 is on the network, run the program, insert the disc then use your computer to rip the DSF files from the disc.

It works exactly the same way using a cheap, not 4K supporting, Blu-ray player. There are lists of compatible models. All the 4K models have patched this hole.

Then again, a lot of SACD ISO rips are available online if you know where to look. I have about 32 albums, only a few of them I ripped myself. And setting up Foobar is a bit if a faff a well.

 

[BentonF]

Hi Benton, Given that you live way way way out at the end of the road, you mostly need something that will work and that you can buy in Canada. What is your budget? And I would think that you would want a reliable player that will be guaranteed to work right out of the box.
The Denon players are all good, and you can likely get one in Canada. Oppo is out of business. There are Marantz players that cost half the cost of the SA-10, or less, and are just as good. There are also the Yamaha players that are also good and fairly reliable. I like Marantz players, but that's just me. BTW, I also mostly listen to classical music and Marantz players have served me well for years.

What Marantz do you have?
What do you recommend?

 

[dadregga]

This has been a pretty dismal discussion: practically nothing in terms of modestly priced, dedicated CD/SACD players.

I would like something to replace my approx. 20 y/o Sony SCD-CE775. That Sony is an awkward to use, multi-channel SACD whose sound quality is far from great. (Redbook out to my Topping D90 definitely sound better than the Sony's analog stereo output.)

I have absolutely no interest in jumping through the hoops of ripping. I just want a simple, good sounding player for my stereo system, but there is essentially nothing below US$1000. The NAD C 546BEE look like it might be the ticket but it's no longer for sale by NAD.

People have recommended several universal Bluray players which can be had for ~50 USD on the used market. Those will probably do you.

If not, then yeah - SACD (and CD!) dedicated transports are an enormously niche product these days, and exist only for the enthusiast market - that is, they sell for $$$ to account for the low sales volumes.

 

[al2002]

Have you looked at the current series Sony combo players? The X800 should play back SACD.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Have you looked at the current series Sony combo players? The X800 should play back SACD.

Thanks, yes it does. Unfortunately the X800 has no analog outputs which I would need for my stereo system.

Another potential problem is that for an SACD player to be useful to me it must be easy to operate without a video monitor (or TV).

 

[DonH56]

Thanks, yes it does. Unfortunately the X800 has no analog outputs which I would need for my stereo system.

Another potential problem is that for an SACD player to be useful to me it must be easy to operate without a video monitor (or TV).

A quick search and sorting at a few websites (reviews and sales sites) indicates getting analog outputs is an issue. The Sony's play SACDs and are available for under $300 USD, but the first player with analog outputs appears to be a Yamaha at around $1200. My suggestion would be to get one of the Sony units (I have an X700 to back up my old Oppo) and a decent inexpensive (Topping?) DAC with a S/PDIF input to use for stereo playback. That could get you something for $300~$500 USD or so, player and DAC, I think.

HTH - Don

 

[al2002]

Yes, an outboard DAC would be needed, but I thought you already had one? Then the only other (relatively) reasonably priced one I know of is the next one up the Sony line,the 1000. Don’t know how good the DAC is.

 

[Tom C]

For maybe $100, you can get a monitor suitable for operating the player. Any old legacy cable laying around the house will do for this purpose.
then spend $200 for the player.
If you already have DAC that will accept DSD, you are now done for $300 all in, with brand new equipment (For two-channel stereo). If you don’t have a DAC already, it’ll cost you another $200. So $500 tops. Much less than $1,200.
Can’t do it much cheaper.

 

[Tom C]

Wait a minute, I was wrong. You can do it cheaper. Bought an old Sony blu-ray player myself that’ll play an SACD and put out digital. So, if your budget is tighter still, $30 for the player. You can probably get a used monitor along with it for not much dough.

 

[JaccoW]

Wait a minute, I was wrong. You can do it cheaper. Bought an old Sony blu-ray player myself that’ll play an SACD and put out digital. So, if your budget is tighter still, $30 for the player. You can probably get a used monitor along with it for not much dough.

It won't however put out DSD over digital. You could get away with audio over HDMI and use an audio extractor box for about $100 which can send that signal as DSD over PCM (DoP) over coax or toslink to a compatible DAC or receiver.

If OP is looking for analog out the Sony UHP-H1 might work but it is not a 4K player.

 

[Gorgonzola]

It won't however put out DSD over digital. You could get away with audio over HDMI and use an audio extractor box for about $100 which can send that signal as DSD over PCM (DoP) over coax or toslink to a compatible DAC or receiver.

If OP is looking for analog out the Sony UHP-H1 might work but it is not a 4K player.

And HDMI to coax audio extractor is an interesting idea. I should also say that I'm not a DSD purist; if the player puts out high-rez PCM I'd probably be happy with that.

Any recommendations for an HDMI extractor?

 

[JaccoW]

And HDMI to coax audio extractor is an interesting idea. I should also say that I'm not a DSD purist; if the player puts out high-rez PCM I'd probably be happy with that.

Any recommendations for an HDMI extractor?

This one should work: HDMI/MHL Digital Interface Audio I2S/DSD/Optical/Coaxial HDMI To I2S IIS DOP ts. As long as the title contains DoP it should work.

I should check my BDP-X800. Maybe it does do PCM with SACD over coax.
EDIT: Nope, the Topping E50 shows 44.1kHz

 

[DonH56]

@Gorgonzola said "stereo" so I assumed two-channel and did not suggest an HDMI audio extractor. S/PDIF does not support multichannel IIRC, at least not at DSD bandwidth (did not look; I know AES does though do not think it supports more than 5.1). Great idea if you need all six channels, and still cheaper than an SACD player with six-channel audio outputs.

 

[Galliardist]

I like my SA-10. But it's well and truly overpriced at retail. It's the only piece of electronics my partner doesn't swear at when trying to operate. Since a disc player was her rather forceful request I think I got that choice right. Having caught up with the review here - well, it's good enough. I thought when I bought it that the measurements I saw of European models were a touch better.

This measures better though:

Marantz SACD 30n Measurements (SACD Player, DAC & Streamer)

Marantz SACD 30n Measurements Hi folks, Here is my objective analysis of the Marantz SACD 30n. This sample in particular has been gently loaned to me by Sound United France directly. It is a versatile piece of gear, being not only a SACD/CD player, but also a standalone DAC and a streamer...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I hated the front panel controls on that player when I tried it.

At a more realistic price, there's the Arcam HDA CDS50 mentioned above. I had a demo at a store and it didn't read my Pentatone discs, which was a bit offputting.

 

[JaccoW]

@Gorgonzola said "stereo" so I assumed two-channel and did not suggest an HDMI audio extractor. S/PDIF does not support multichannel IIRC, at least not at DSD bandwidth (did not look; I know AES does though do not think it supports more than 5.1). Great idea if you need all six channels, and still cheaper than an SACD player with six-channel audio outputs.

True, there is a lot of potential bandwidth as well but both devices have to support it to work.
And with 6-channel DSD taking at least 33.6Mbps you're well into HDMI territory.

Some (but not all) SACD's have a so called Redbook 16-bit 44.1 kHz layer so regular CD players can play them at normal CD-quality. So that's probably what is going on here.

I asked a similar question a couple of pages ago but yeah virtually zero SACD players will output DSD over Coax/Toslink. That is down to the standard and limits of those technologies and the DRM at the time SACD came out.

To give people an overview here:

• CD: 1.4 Mbps for 2-channel. 16-bit 44.1 kHz
• SACD: 5.6 Mbps for 2-channel 1-bit 2.8224 MHz (2822.4kHz) DSD, more if it is a 6 channel (5.1) recording.
• Coax/S/PDIF: 3.1 Mbps 20-bit 48kHz but can go as high as 24-bit 192 kHz PCM (9.216 Mbps) if the receiver supports it. Theoretically no maximum bandwidth but the S/PDIF standard doesn't support it in most devices.
• TOSLINK: 3.1 Mbps. 20-bit 48 kHz max. Modern TOSLINK can go as high as 125Mbps but is rarely supported. Higher jitter. Based on S/PDIF.
• HDMI 1.0: 36.86 Mbps
• HDMI 2.0: 49.152 Mbps. At least 16-bit 44.1 2-channel but up to 8-channel 16/20/24-bit x 32/44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz or 8-channel 1-bit DSD (aka 22.4 Mbps)

It was unfortunately a standard that came into existence when companies were trying to figure out DRM and record companies were very apprehensive about giving consumers access to their Master Tape copies through hi-res audio formats. So every single older SACD player has a Sony approved internal DAC to decode the DSD signal or sends the encrypted data stream over HDMI to a Receiver that can safely decode DSD into analog before it leaves the device.

There are a couple of Blu-Ray players that can extract it to USB through a commandline tool but other than that you're out of luck. And I feel your pain.

 

[Gorgonzola]

This one should work: HDMI/MHL Digital Interface Audio I2S/DSD/Optical/Coaxial HDMI To I2S IIS DOP ts. As long as the title contains DoP it should work.

I should check my BDP-X800. Maybe it does do PCM with SACD over coax.
EDIT: Nope, the Topping E50 shows 44.1kHz

Well, as @JaccoW mentioned it is stereo that I'm interested in, not multi-channel.

Paul McGowan says it's "DSP over PCM". In fact my Topping D90 DAC does DSD and it does have an IIS input. The device you link has an IIS output that perhaps would connect to my D90, but then the D90 handles stereo, not multi-channel. The device has virtually no information on eBay for exactly what it does.

On the other side of the divide, my current Sony Blu-ray reads SACDs but converts DSD to PCM for output -- If I'm not mistake most Blu-ray players do this, outputting PCM only, not DSD.

 

[fordiebianco]

If you can get one second hand, I can recommend the Sony UBP-X1000ES. Plays everything, including my 5.1 SACDs (and HD-Blu-Ray and DVD Audio). It's not as pretty or sturdy as the aforementioned Denon UDPs, but it works flawlessly.

 

[formdissolve]

If you can get one second, I can recommend the Sony UBP-X1000ES. Plays everything, including my 5.1 SACDs (and HD-Blu-Ray and DVD Audio). It's not as pretty or sturdy as the aforementioned Denon UDPs, but it works flawlessly.

Was gonna say that too, however there's a new model: UBP-X1000ES.. Sadly, it's been discontinued. Unsure if they will be making another. I also can't comment on the quality of the analog outputs.

 

[JaccoW]

Well, as @JaccoW mentioned it is stereo that I'm interested in, not multi-channel.

Paul McGowan says it's "DSP over PCM". In fact my Topping D90 DAC does DSD and it does have an IIS input. The device you link has an IIS output that perhaps would connect to my D90, but then the D90 handles stereo, not multi-channel. The device has virtually no information on eBay for exactly what it does.

On the other side of the divide, my current Sony Blu-ray reads SACDs but converts DSD to PCM for output -- If I'm not mistake most Blu-ray players do this, outputting PCM only, not DSD.

There are several people in the Topping D90SE thread talking about how they use a device like this one to extract audio over either Coax or IIS.

I am using a Topping E50 DAC which does accept DSD but only has USB, Coax and S/PDIF for digital inputs. If you have a device that accepts HDMI you can easily do DSD over PCM or have it ripped from the hdmi cable using one of those boxes.