Good article in the NewYork Times about Dolby Atmos

[MayaTlab]

I don't have a surround or Atmos system (and don't go to that many movies in theaters so haven't really assessed this) but have always wondered, when watching movies, does the orientation of sounds change with every camera angle?

I've often heard something to that effect indeed. As recently as last evening, when watching a dumb fun film with a car chase shot from the hip, with a wide angle, and with the camera in the middle of the action, the cars' sound was tracked according to their position relative to the camera, which in that case makes a lot of sense in my opinion.

It would seem that is an artistic choice/compromise, but I imagine it could be distracting or artificial sounding.

Like if two people facing each other are standing next to a waterfall, each time the camera flips to show the other person talking, does the waterfall sound flip from left to right? That's obviously an extreme (and contrived) example, but it seems this just raises a million conundrums in doing surround mixing for movies.

I agree with you that there is a strong artistic component to that question. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is something that is hotly debated when mixing content, and that even within the same film, different decisions might be made on a per scene and per object basis. I'll add to these conundrums the soundtrack .

Taking the example of the waterfall, if it is a quiet scene and you want to focus on the dialogue, in addition to various other tools, perhaps what you could do is diffuse the waterfall's sound quite a bit so that the flip is less noticeable ?

 

[Galliardist]

Without a visual reference, I find the head tracking a bit odd on my AirPod Pros. The way it constantly slides around if I stay turned for long enough I find annoying enough to not use it. I’m curious about how much better it would be with the Vision Pro.

I suspect that having the Vision Pro will lead to improvement of tbe system. It’s likely that the first generation headset will prove to be a public beta - enough to demonstrate the case, and a lot of firmware updates and such.

If the sound doesn’t work well enough the device will fail. Hopefully that aren’t releasing it before solving any problems: I read that the release now is about Tim Cook’s legacy in part, so they might be taking a risk and jumping too soon, or not considering all aspects.

Google Glass, anyone?

 

[Vacceo]

You don’t need to do that, though. The rears can be on the wall, or (as in our old house) in bookcases, surrounded by books on their sides. The speakers just have to be well chosen for the role. I’ve found wider pattern speakers to be much better. I’ve settled on CBT arrays as the optimal choice for real-world sides/rears, though in the past I’ve found speakers with wide and smooth horizontal directivity (NHT C3 or the older Classic Three is a great example) to work well.

In the pre-immersive days, I also found upfiring coaxes (e.g. KEF Q100) to work wells as sides/rears, though they were too localizable when aimed at the listeners.

I have used old Kef IQ1's angled down as atmost speakers. They worked quite well, to be honest.

 

[Pabi]

Otherwise, if it were all about depth, they'd have called it bathos.
EDIT: OK, technically, it'd be bathys, but apparently Focal already has used that name on some headphones (per google).

I wouldn’t laugh so much: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.2051-3-202205-I!!PDF-E.pdf

 

[IPunchCholla]

I think that Apple's ambitions in regards to head tracking are a bit more advanced than just "after x time, for non-visual based content, recentre". They use the AirPods and the source device's motion sensors to detect whether you're sitting, standing, walking, in a static place or in a moving vehicle, and they do apply different algorithms depending the source device type and on whether the content is visual (you have a reference for where the sound is meant to come from), or non visual (no reference for where the sound is meant to come from).

They have a shitload of patents on the subject of using motion sensors for spatial audio head-tracking, this one among others for example : https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20230100254

Personally I've been generally displeased with the current state of head-tracking in Apple's ecosystem, but perhaps they'll manage to improve it to a point where I find it truly credible.

That’s interesting. I haven’t noticed a time difference based on whether I’m sitting or standing. In both cases it seems to re-center too quickly for my tastes. The effect itself is fine, though maybe just a bit “slidey“ when I first turn it on. I don’t hate it, but so far I prefer spatial without the head-tracking.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Everyone has a different definition of “cheap.” JBL CBT-50 are as low in price as I know. JBL did a well received Synthesis immersive demo at CEDIA a while back using them with M2s. The only advantage I can gather from CBT-100 is they may look better flanking bookshelves (that’s why we use them as rears with 50s as sides).



IMO that’s an issue for all reproduction. You can’t add a walkway behind, or at least a console table?

Those look really interesting! Thanks. As for the reproduction issue, for streaming watching, We have a 55” TV with a sound bar and subwoofer in our bedroom. We watch one episode or movie a day max. My partner also uses it for music while working out. Fidelity/immersion isn’t important to my partner (like at all) and the shows we watch are character driven so very few LFE and not much in the way of exciting action. My studio/office has two listening positions. I primarily listen near field when I am composing/mixing and I have a second position with a lounger where I can listen for pleasure. The shape of the room is difficult though. I can set up a surround/Atmos system in there for the MLP, but for the lounger, one of the rears would be in front of the launder position at that point.

 

[Zensō]

This is an interesting analysis to add to the discussion (it’s more balanced than the title would suggest).

 

[Dj7675]

Any good, cheap CBT arrays you know of? I’m just not convinced immersive (outside of headphones and IEMs) is for me. So I need a demo or something really cheap to dip my toes in.

ETA: I think much of the issue is that, in my house the MLP is against the wall, meaning the rears are to the side.

Just listed the JBL CBT 50LA1... normally $485 per speaker. Pair for $500 delivered.

FS: JBL CBT 50LA1 Pair $500

I have a pair of used black JBL CBT50LA1 speakers for sale. I used them for my front Wides in my home theater. New they are $485 each. I’m selling them for $500, delivered (I will cover shipping and paypal). Picture is the stock image. I will try to post actual pictures soon. Comes with original...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

To quote the article:

Over the past two years, Wood has been busy mixing old and new records in Dolby Atmos, an audio format that lets engineers create a listening experience more immersive than traditional stereo by placing sounds around and above the listener. Working for a variety of labels, Wood has done Atmos mixes for the Supremes, the Pogues, Jennifer Lopez, Modest Mouse, Gwen Stefani and Soul Asylum — some 300-plus tracks in total, the equivalent of two dozen albums.

So a guy thats busy can punch out 24 Atmos albums in 2 years.

Thats the issue for me. I go and spend a whole lot of cash to install a gazillion speakers then all I have to play is a trickle of albums (from artists I have no interest in).Then more cash to rebuy whatever albums I like in Atmos format.

I have 5000 albums, evenly split between Blues and Jazz with maybe 50 Rock albums from non-mainstream artists (Rory Gallagher, Roy Buchanan, Robin Trower etc).

How many Blues album will be remastered in Atmos.... maybe a few dozen.

The last Great Remastering occurred for SACD and according to the SACD Bible https://www.sa-cd.net, there are 85 Blues SACD's. Jazz is better served with 1436 but at least 70% of those are not of interest (i.e. they arent currently in my collection so never will be).

So what will happen is Atmos will attack all the usual suspects (DSOTM, Take Five, the usual gaggle of uninteresting breathy female lounge singers etc) but music lovers that arent main stream wont see any releases... so the ROI is basically zero.

Mono to Stereo was different..all the labels brought into that... Atmos... not so much.

Peter

Because I like the pre-WWII stuff a lot I immediately thought about Blind Lemon Jefferson and the Memphis Jug Band remastered in Atmos. Hmm...The Louis Armstrong Hot 5 and Hot 7.

 

[BJL]

Because I like the pre-WWII stuff a lot I immediately thought about Blind Lemon Jefferson and the Memphis Jug Band remastered in Atmos. Hmm...The Louis Armstrong Hot 5 and Hot 7.

These are obviously not suitable recordings for Atmos.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

These are obviously not suitable recordings for Atmos.

I know. I was joking.

 

[bevok]

I know. I was joking.

With AI technology such as that developed by Peter Jackson for "Get Back" perhaps they could if the elements could be seperated into different tracks.

 

[Philbo King]

With AI technology such as that developed by Peter Jackson for "Get Back" perhaps they could if the elements could be seperated into different tracks.

I was thinking the same thing. I recently got a plugin that does an exceptional job of splitting out vocals, reverb/ambience, and music backing tracks into separate streams. AI? Who knows.. but the technology is advancing.

 

[teashea]

This is an excellent video discussing ATMOS. The best discussion I have seen. The bottom line is:

ATMOS sound, done correctly, can be excellent.

Very few people will ever hear music in true ATMOS.

 

[Jeromeof]

I see Brian Eno Albums just got released in Dolby Atmos

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/brian-eno-albums-dolby-atmos-first-time/

 

[mhardy6647]

Very few people will ever hear music in true ATMOS.

... and why would that be?
... and what exactly constitutes, umm... untrue ATMOS?

 

[Zensō]

I see Brian Eno Albums just got released in Dolby Atmos

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/brian-eno-albums-dolby-atmos-first-time/

His music seems like a potentially good fit for Atmos. I’m curious to hear the binaural downmixes in my AirPods Max. Streaming via Airplay I’ll be able to toggle between Atmos and stereo, which should be an interesting exercise.

 

[teashea]

... and why would that be?
... and what exactly constitutes, umm... untrue ATMOS?

Because a quality Atmos system requires an excellent room and $40,000+ of equipment. A Best Buy or Walmart surround sound system is untrue ATMOS. Listening with stereo headphones is untrue,,,,,,

 

[mhardy6647]

Because a quality Atmos system requires an excellent room and $40,000+ of equipment. A Best Buy or Walmart surround sound system is untrue ATMOS. Listening with stereo headphones is untrue,,,,,,

a-Ha!


I say this because there seemed to be folks earlier in this thread who felt at least somewhat otherwise.
e.g., https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-about-dolby-atmos.45822/page-3#post-1634706
I also note, wryly, that the cost has dropped $10k since page 3, so I guess the cost of goods is improving in a manner that's favorable to the consumer.

That said, I doubt that many on this forum are coppin' their hifi hardware from Best Buy or Walmart -- FWIW.
I could be wrong, though.

 

[middlemarch]

RE: Quality Atmos system...

Just have to differ here. My system, accumulated over the last 25 years, has cost me in the neighborhood of $10K (details in my sig). The pricey bits are the 6700 (2500 open box), the 3.3s (1500 used) and the C208 (1900). Three subs and the Crown another 2500. The rest of the speakers all told about 1500. I am very, very happy with the sound and the experience and am sure I could get to 90% of that performance for probably 2-3K less (cheaper AVR, subs and center would do it readily). That would get one a system most of the population (maybe not the average ASR member) would be very happy with.

Now perhaps I've got a crap system and maybe I'm tone deaf (hey, I'm 69, could be dementia), but it sure as heck works for me and has been an eye (ear?) opener for more than a few visitors. Please tell me what I'm missing here that requires an additional $30,000.

Ain't no headphone system, and sure doesn't sound untrue to me.