GGNTKT Model M1

[changer]

I mean to remember both speakers were driven with the biggest amp option, this makes it the M1S? Also, yes, it is not strictly necessary to add a sub re bandwidth, for lower listening levels, it could be fine to go without. I would definitely recommend to first think about one’s own listening levels.

But a 6.5 inch driver is strained when delivering 30-1400 Hz. The manufacturer thus restricts the distortion data provided on his page for bass frequencies to 80-120 Hz (3 percent at 90 dB @ 1m). And as the M1 is a 2-way, this will introduce a lot of IMD for frequencies up to 1400 Hz (xo). This is why I think for people who demand a high performant full range solution in a small package, the M1 could be interesting with the upcoming dedicated sub that replaces the stylish stand.

 

[jamington2004]

Sounds like you know more than me Great write up on the other link by the way

 

[boXem]

as the M1 is a 2-way,

You sure? It has 3 channels of amplification. For me the front is medium only, the 2 rear bass + medium in cardiod mode, bass only on monopole mode.

 

[Purité Audio]

Two and a half way I believe, thanks for the Hamburg write-up @changer .
Keith

 

[changer]

You sure? It has 3 channels of amplification. For me the front is medium only, the 2 rear bass + medium in cardiod mode, bass only on monopole mode.

Sorry, I was not precise. In my write-up of my listening yesterday, I mentioned that at some point the preset of the M1(S) was changed to sub cardioid, that I, subjectively, found to be superior to the previous mode. In this mode, we were told, the two drivers at the back were not supporting in the bass anymore at all, just applying cardioid. I an a bit confused about the modes. The manufacturer website states a monopole and cardioid mode, the S&R review knows about a low cardioid and a sub cardioid config. My reasoning was that the sub cardioid tuning is not mentioned on the website and the data for the cardioid shows the mode which S&R writer Anselm Goertz called the low cardioid mode. In this preset, in fact, the speaker is a 2.5-way speaker. I preferred a configuration where it is a true cardioid 2-way. Please also note that the speaker sadly was not corrected for the room and the S&R review notes that the differences between the two cardioid modes were little, once room correction was applied. So the sound of the low cardioid, 2.5-way config might improve considerably.

However, I spend my afternoon to improve the room correction of the chipboard box mentioned in my write-up and could not achieve similar clarity in bass. I cannot change Sound Power without cardioid behavior, sadly.

Edit: Finally, it was sighted listening and the presets were changed after I had asked for it. There is obviously a lot of expectation bias involved.

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

Was it the M1 or the M1S? Perhaps the higher power version would negate the need for a sub?

We did the demo with the Non-S Version, since the room was too small anyway. Both M1 and M1 S have the same amplifier, so the same peak performance, but M1 S has an added power supply which can hold the peak performance much longer about (about 10x).

 

[jamington2004]

Having found my audio nirvana with the M1S, and simply been enjoying the music last few months, I find myself in need of some tinkering and measuring!

Q1) I currently have them in cardioid mode, and have some PEQ set up for the main listening position.
Now that my WIIM pro source streamer has a PEQ option - this would allow me to set up multiple listening positions and very quickly switch on my phone without a laptop that the M1S need.

In theory it shouldn’t matter where I set the PEQ right?

Q2) I want to try and see / hear the difference between monopole and cardioid mode (I think it works on the “mid bass” only) Speakers are tight up against the front wall about 2 metres from listening position room is about 3 by 3

What should I be listening out for?

I know it’s not specific to these speakers but thought I’d keep the thread going for these little beauties

 

[Purité Audio]

It won’t matter where you add the filters, but I would only adjust in the low bass region.
Re cardioid experiment and get back to us,
Keith

 

[jamington2004]

Thanks. Yes PEQ is only a couple of bass peaks really at 40 and 100hz from memory

 

[changer]

In my experience it is best to do measurements. We will mostly fail to hear issues before a longer time of constant usage and think the flaws are features

If I understood correctly, you got a measurement option. As Keith already wrote, it does not matter where the EQ happens in a digital chain, but you will not have the equalization if you listen from another source (i.e. television, analogue). I ran out of PEQs with my Hypex (15 filters per channel + 9 global) and began to insert additional settings into my streamer's DSP. Works with the aforementioned limitation that they are only available from this source.

What to listen for? There is a somewhat laborious measurement technique by John Atkinson that allows to create a pseudo-Sound Power spectrum of your installed speakers:

Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Three Page 8

In-Room Amplitude Response Unlike other audio components, the perceived sound of a loudspeaker is affected by factors other than its intrinsic performance. All the previous measured acoustic parameters that have been discussed examine the loudspeaker in isolation. But loudspeakers are used in...

www.stereophile.com

He suggest to take 60 measurements per speaker at 10 spots (each an average of 6 measurements) in a horizontal rectangle of ca. 2.5 x 0.45 cm, vertically centered around LP. So, two times 5 measurement spots along a long horizontal line, separated vertically by the shorter distance. This way you might see the different amount of sound power, as well as room interaction, between cardioid and monopol. Btw, can you tell me: is there a mode that is called sub-cardioid?

 

[jamington2004]

Thanks! My TV goes through the wiim as well.
Only benefit of adding via the speakers is that they have separate L+R filters.

AFAIK it’s only monopole or cardioid on my speakers - I double check when I get round to firing the laptop up

I don’t think I have the strength for 60 measurements. Maybe 4 - monopole non corrected and corrected, cardioid non corrected and corrected!

 

[slaweks]

Hi there!

thanks for highlighting our Model M1. I was notified by our engineer that our active speakers were discussed here and so I joined this board.

My name is Roland and I'm the founder of GGNTKT – the company with the password-generator-name (Right, its German for "Gegentakt"... and the fact that you do talk about the name, ensures that you will remember it). We started in 2018 and were in stealth-mode for about 12 months to develop Model M1 and also two others. As you might have guessed we have a strong orientation towards evidence-based design. I myself am no an acoustical engineer (at least I'm holding a computer science degree), but we joined forces with well-known talents in the industry and also have access to many Klippel tools, including the NFS. Coming from DIY I build my first speaker more the 25 years ago and over time passion grew into profession. In 2015 I co-founded Schanks Audio which was specialized in motional feedback technology and highly vertical integrated for such a small company.

I always wanted to have speakers with a certain level of aesthetics and industrial design, combined with the best possible acoustical performance in a given form factor. Yes, you could argue the B&O is also trying that, and its true. But I think they are a bit more on the design side and do sacrifice performance here and there. The reason why Model M1 (and also upcoming Model M2) has a wide baffle is because of that – I liked the design and its works acoustically very well.

Model M1 is a very compact speaker with less than 10l internal volume and you will be surprised when you see the only 140mm/5,5” deep/flat cabinet the first time. The goal was (1) very controlled radiation pattern with constant directivity, (2) high SPL and (3) distortion below hearing thresholds, whereas (2) + (3) do interact very much.

Obviously, we use the same SB Acoustics Aluminum drivers that Buchardt, Revel and others are using, since they are extremely low distortion designs (by former Scan-Speak masterminds). I even think it’s the best driver in its class, except the new Purify drivers (which were not available then). We decided against a ventilated cabinet, because in a small 2-way design it’s very difficult to get a clean midband even with passive radiators. Also designing a noiseless and resonance-free port is not that easy. So, went with a closed cabinet and to meet our SPL goals we had to put in three (!) SB drivers and a lot of amping power. That was a quite expansive decision but gave us the best results. The two drivers in the back are used to create a cardioid radiation pattern which extends the constant directivity to apx. 250 Hz. Below that frequency all three woofers do play bass in parallel (in phase). Since we have full three channels per speaker, we can apply different radiation patters (right now there is no-cardioid, supercardioid/135° and hypercardioid/180°).

As for the HF region we wanted drivers that radiate a plane wavefront which make the integration to any waveguide and therefore shaping directivity much easier and cleaner, so that’s why we went with a compression driver. Also, a nice side effect is the high SPL capabilities which are 5-10dB more than most dome tweeters, very useful in home cinema use cases. As evidence-based designers know there is no “tweeter-sound”, it all comes from radiation/directivity and partly from distortion (if above hearing thresholds). That is why for us there is no dogma in drivers types (domes, ribbon, AMT, Compressions, etc) and materials.

Because of the compact cabinet we decided to swap the electronics out, so all DSP-processing and amping is done outside for all six channels, so there is one 1U case to drive a pair of Model M1. We use Pascal U-PRO2S(D) class-d amps and do source our DSP from a German premium brand Fouraudio, because of their excellent software. Most of our filtering is FIR based, so Model M1 is linear phase 20 Hz – 20 kHz.

I could go on and write much more, but feel free to ask and have a look on some pictures:
https://www.instagram.com/ggntktaudio/

Thanks again,
Roland

PS: There will be Model M2 and a third home cinema Speaker (codename SRND), both before the end of the year...

The idea of constant directivity is great, but I would prefer narrower directivity. Any thoughts or plans in this direction?

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

The idea of constant directivity is great, but I would prefer narrower directivity. Any thoughts or plans in this direction?

I guess you mixed up constant directivity with degree of directivity (wide or narrow) – those are two different things. All of our speakers will have constant directivity (in their physical limits), because it just makes sense. Model M1 is made for short to mid listening distances, so we chose a wide directivity pattern.

Typically you tend to need a narrow directivity pattern with longer distances (> 4-5m) to the listening position and in rooms with high(er) reverberation times. Is that the case with you?

 

[slaweks]

I guess you mixed up constant directivity with degree of directivity (wide or narrow) – those are two different things. All of our speakers will have constant directivity (in their physical limits), because it just makes sense. Model M1 is made for short to mid listening distances, so we chose a wide directivity pattern.

Typically you tend to need a narrow directivity pattern with longer distances (> 4-5m) to the listening position and in rooms with high(er) reverberation times. Is that the case with you?

No, I did not mix up. I would like to have a speaker with a constant but narrow directivity, say 60 degrees. Yours seem to be wide, like 120, right? I am using BACCH, and for I would like as little as possible early reflections.

 

[changer]

It is stated on the manufacturers homepage under the technical data. Horizontal dispersion is given as 140 degrees, vertical 100 degrees (-40, +60). These speakers do not follow the sound formula of reducing early reflections that is popular in some circles. Narrow radiating waveguide speakers, the industry mainstay, result in reduced spaciousness and image size (with the exception that listening distance, and stereo base, can be extended to at least 4 to 5 m).

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

No, I did not mix up. I would like to have a speaker with a constant but narrow directivity, say 60 degrees. Yours seem to be wide, like 120, right? I am using BACCH, and for I would like as little as possible early reflections.

As I said, Model M1 is meant to be a near field monitor that work perfectly well to medium listening distance. Hence the wide directivity, especially in the horizontal plane (140°x100°).

Typically such high directivity (like 60°) doesn't do you any good, unless you sit far away and have a very reflective room. That's why I asked for your listening environment. As with Model S1 we have a very narrow vertical directivity pattern, but it's optimized for another use case (surround speaker in home cinemas with a fixed listening position).

I'm not sure whether BACCH needs a certain speakers directivity, hence less reflections. It might be the other way around.

 

[Dialectic]

It is stated on the manufacturers homepage under the technical data. Horizontal dispersion is given as 140 degrees, vertical 100 degrees (-40, +60). These speakers do not follow the sound formula of reducing early reflections that is popular in some circles. Narrow radiating waveguide speakers, the industry mainstay, result in reduced spaciousness and image size (with the exception that listening distance, and stereo base, can be extended to at least 4 to 5 m).

Without BACCH, wider directivity generates a larger, if more diffuse, subjective sound field because of side-wall reflections.

With BACCH, narrow directivity is preferable and produces a larger sound field with more precisely placed "objects".

 

[OMas]

The M3 is out…

GGNTKT Launches New Model M3 Active Mastering Monitor With Cardioid Bass

German loudspeaker design house GGNTKT Audio launched a freestanding 4-way active loudspeaker as the flagship model in its M family. The new Model M3 is described as an active mastering monitor with cardioid radiation behavior, directly reflecting the company's philosophy of designing systems...

audioxpress.com

Model M3 - Active 4-way mastering monitor

High reproduction neutrality and extremely low distortion at high sound levels meet even the most demanding requirements in any professional or private listening environment. Equipped with cutting-edge technology such as cardioid dispersion, Model M3 ensures even sound distribution and realistic...

ggntkt.de

 

[Flexecutioner]

The M3 is out…

GGNTKT Launches New Model M3 Active Mastering Monitor With Cardioid Bass

German loudspeaker design house GGNTKT Audio launched a freestanding 4-way active loudspeaker as the flagship model in its M family. The new Model M3 is described as an active mastering monitor with cardioid radiation behavior, directly reflecting the company's philosophy of designing systems...

audioxpress.com

Model M3 - Active 4-way mastering monitor

High reproduction neutrality and extremely low distortion at high sound levels meet even the most demanding requirements in any professional or private listening environment. Equipped with cutting-edge technology such as cardioid dispersion, Model M3 ensures even sound distribution and realistic...

ggntkt.de

Probably worth a separate thread so this one doesn't get too derailed

 

[Emlin]

Probably worth a separate thread so this one doesn't get too derailed

Like this one? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../ggntkt-m3-yes-m3-formerly-known-as-m2.14656/