Genelec 8030C too hissy - what to get instead - KH80, 120? Paired with Presonus sub8.

[baldheadbiomed]

Genelec 8030c have a bit too loud self hiss for my 1 m near-field use, so looking for another solution. A bit limited in desk space so ideally not something a lot deeper than 20 cm.
Got a cheap and cheerful Presonus Sub8 that high passes above 80 Hz to deal with the low frequencies.

I see Neumann KH80 being mentioned, sonically and build quality wise the 8030C seems superior but I can't get on with the hiss. The 120A isn't much bigger, an has a full metal build?
KEF LSX has been mentioned, some say they are hissier than genelecs. LYD5 too, but there are also reports of hiss due to a cheap class D amp driving the tweeter.

Anything else to consider - I did look at the hiss thread.. Not producing professionally so don't need ruler flatness (although have though about doing room correction with REW).

 

[NiagaraPete]

Have you tried flipping the gain switch?

 

[Killingbeans]

+1

Short the input to hear the self noise of the speaker. Otherwise the culprint could easily be source noise + gain structure.

 

[unpluggged]

The Neumann counterpart is the KH 120 A. It's dead silent at 1 m. I'd also consider the new KH 120 II for its DSP features (including room correction), or the KH 750 DSP sub with the KH 120 A to get a complete room-corrected and phase-coherent bass-managed system. The enclosure material is irrelevant.

 

[baldheadbiomed]

Have you tried flipping the gain switch?

Yep! Silent room + tweeters relatively close to ears no bueno.

 

[WalkingInTheRain]

When doing research for the 8030s, hiss was a concern after returning a set of JBL 305Mkii. It was either Genelec or Neuman and I went with Genelec (I'm Finnish fwiw). I use an RME ADI-2 DAC FS and zero hissing. I also have the DAC plugged into a UPS for many reasons and I hear zero hiss. I could hear the JBL hiss from a meter away, but not the 8030Cs. I can put my ear to the tweeter and zero hissing and I have sensitive ears! Perhaps I got lucky or combination of the source and UPS? Who knows.

 

[fpitas]

If you haven't already, you might contact Genelec to see if that's considered normal.

 

[pablolie]

Yep! Silent room + tweeters relatively close to ears no bueno.

I sit right in front of my humble Audioengine A2 speakers (I use headphones the vast majority of the time), and those have *zero* hiss off the tweeter in a very quiet room (I hate noise, my computer is built to be completely silent).

 

[staticV3]

@baldheadbiomed the German website Sound & Recording tests, among other things, the self-noise of various studio monitors:

https://www.soundandrecording.de/thema/studiomonitore/

Might be useful to you.

 

[Martini]

Which way do you have the gain control turned? To lower the sensitivity of the 8030C, set it to +6, not -6. If the speaker does not get loud enough for you at +6, then increase the its sensitivity by by backing down from there. I have zero hiss from mine set to +6.

 

[WalkingInTheRain]

I sit right in front of my humble Audioengine A2 speakers (I use headphones the vast majority of the time), and those have *zero* hiss off the tweeter in a very quiet room (I hate noise, my computer is built to be completely silent).

I had a pair or AA A2 before the plus version. They are fine for multimedia but the spinorama of those show they aren't great for music.

Audioengine 2 powered loudspeaker The Audioengine A2+

Follow-Up: the Audioengine A2+ from April 2015 (Vol.38 No.4): When Robert J. Reina reviewed the Audioengine A2 powered loudspeaker in the December 2007 issue, he concluded, "I have never been more impressed with or more stunned by a component I've reviewed for Stereophile than I was with the...

www.stereophile.com

https://www.stereophile.com/images/0415-AE2Pfig4.jpg

 

[Zensō]

Hmm, unless you have unusually good hearing, something doesn’t seem quite right. I’d probably do some more testing before assuming it’s the monitors. If it is in fact the monitors, older Adams are known for having low hiss, though I have both the A5X and the 8030C and the Genelec has only very slightly more hiss (not noticeable at 1 meter with my ears).

Adam A5X Review (Powered Studio Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Adam A5X powered speaker. It was kindly sent to me by a member for review and costs US $499 each. Despite its small size, the A5X is quite heavy: The back of it got warm so I am assuming it uses class AB amplification or at least a linear...

www.audiosciencereview.com

To quote Amir from the review: “I put my ear next to the tweeter but could not hear any hiss. This is well above average.”

 

[pablolie]

I had a pair or AA A2 before the plus version. They are fine for multimedia but the spinorama of those show they aren't great for music.

Audioengine 2 powered loudspeaker The Audioengine A2+

Follow-Up: the Audioengine A2+ from April 2015 (Vol.38 No.4): When Robert J. Reina reviewed the Audioengine A2 powered loudspeaker in the December 2007 issue, he concluded, "I have never been more impressed with or more stunned by a component I've reviewed for Stereophile than I was with the...

www.stereophile.com

https://www.stereophile.com/images/0415-AE2Pfig4.jpg

They are more than good enough for their purpose, and considering their price pretty spectacular . If there's anything that is better at that size, I am all ears (I have looked around). I do have a main system for music listening. And when I work listening to music I use headphones (Beyerdynamic DT1990pro + JDS Labs Element 3, sometimes Shure SRH1540).

But the main relevant point for this topic is that the A2 have zero hiss (but that also always depends on what drives a speaker in general - if the source is noisy, hey, the speaker's job is to expose it).

 

[Curvature]

@baldheadbiomed the German website Sound & Recording tests, among other things, the self-noise of various studio monitors:
View attachment 292073
https://www.soundandrecording.de/thema/studiomonitore/

Might be useful to you.

There's this old thread.

Hiss List (S&R)

Lots of discussion about hiss lately, how perceptible or annoying it is, and if it matters. I've created a sheet with Sound & Recording measurements of hiss in active loudspeakers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n62hGAdKptSSKC74_fIT_R7DxFJ60YR2_O9C8x-vYQI/edit?usp=sharing Viewers can...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[restorer-john]

@baldheadbiomed You are sensitive to hiss (residual noise) and other people either can't hear it, don't want to hear it, or pretend they have 'zero' hiss.

Active monitors all make noise. I've never heard one that doesn't, especially ones with low cost class D amps in them. Pick the one that is the quietest to your ears in your space. Make that a condition of purchase with the seller/retailer.

A speaker at close range, in line with a tweeter in a very quiet room will make some noise on any amplifier even if you go passive/separates. Those that think/say otherwise are likely partially deaf.

 

[pablolie]

...

A speaker at close range, in line with a tweeter in a very quiet room will make some noise on any amplifier even if you go passive/separates. Those that think/say otherwise are likely partially deaf.

That I disagree with. I am sure the A2 I mentioned *would* produce hiss *if* I turned its volume knob to max, but that would be simply stupid. The volume knob stays at 50%, and the actual volume is controlled by the utterly silent JDS Labs Atom 3. So if you want to blow your eardrums, by all means keep your active speakers at max and put up with inevitable hiss. If you want a quiet environment, be smart and balance the interaction between components. And if a $2k active monitor has hearable hiss as soon as you turn it on, trash that garbage.

There are a number of implementation options for volume control to balance such things out.

 

[Digby]

Active monitors all make noise.

This, more or less - with background noise, the 'less' among monitors will be fine for many, but get the noise floor low enough and you can hear.

Pick the one that is the quietest to your ears in your space. Make that a condition of purchase with the seller/retailer.

How do you make it a condition of purchase? In that any space with several monitors set up will be too noisy to do any detailed listening/testing and I don't think sellers will take things back purely on the basis of it makes some hiss in a very quiet environment - it would be considered within operating spec.

 

[Curvature]

@baldheadbiomed You are sensitive to hiss (residual noise) and other people either can't hear it, don't want to hear it, or pretend they have 'zero' hiss.

Active monitors all make noise. I've never heard one that doesn't, especially ones with low cost class D amps in them. Pick the one that is the quietest to your ears in your space. Make that a condition of purchase with the seller/retailer.

A speaker at close range, in line with a tweeter in a very quiet room will make some noise on any amplifier even if you go passive/separates. Those that think/say otherwise are likely partially deaf.

There's math and numbers here. Level/spectrum/distance is important, as is masking by ambient noise.

And then some people think the gain knob is just another volume knob.

 

[pablolie]

There's math and numbers here. Level/spectrum/distance is important, as is masking by ambient noise.

And then some people think the gain knob is just another volume knob.

Exactly! To keep an active speaker at max volume and then control overall volume from a noisy source is a sure way to get the worst out of the combination. We all know there are smart options for volume control when components inevitably interact, and some options that are not.

I'll give you an example: Benchmark DAC2HGC connected to a 200W+ NAD M22. The M22 of course has zero volume control, it is always there to blast out full power when the preamp tells it to do so. But *even* when you turn up the Benchmark DAC2HGC to max volume, there is *zero* hiss from the tweeter (holding my ear right to it) from any speaker I have ever connected the combo to. And if anyone turned on music while I am doing that, my eardrum would be blown forever, as probably would be the speaker. Balance people, balance! Chose the right volume control strategy for your use case, and if your goal is to fill a medieval castle with earth-shattering bass, don't complain about hiss when there's a quiet moment and you hazard to be near the speakers...

 

[Curvature]

People get all in a twist talking about studio vs. room acoustics. I'm more irritated by the max voltage levels in professional vs. consumer gear. Both input and output lower in the latter. Gain ends up being way higher to make up for it.