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From an Audiophile’s point of view, in which cases would the Topping D10s DAC perform just as well as the DAC in the RME ADI-2 DAC fs?
- Thread starter KillerQ
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When you are taking a digital stream from a USB source (that is within the supported formats of both) and wanting to output via RCA and wanting no more or less than that.
After that, its features of the RME and bragging rights really.
After that, its features of the RME and bragging rights really.
jannek
Active Member
If balanced out is important - a balanced version of D10s is about to come...
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
If all you need is 2 Vrms unbalanced line level out of a USB DAC to feed a Hi-Fi integrated amp or equivalent (floating either way), the D10s will be plenty, easily passing the threshold for audible transparency. (Just leave a hair of headroom on top just in case, volume setting about 80 perhaps.) It should also have output noise about on par with a decent traditional preamp, normally unconcerning but a problematic combination of high combined power amp gain and speaker sensitivity may yet reveal a bit of audible hiss.
In a preamp replacement DAC you'd really want >120 dB of dynamic range or an output stage gain adjustment - the RME has both so is useful over a super wide range of levels (global non-instantaneous dynamic range coverage is about 132 dB unbalanced and 139 dB balanced), plus it's got an actual volume knob, too. Not to mention its DSP-related functionality. And balanced outputs. And SPDIF coaxial and optical inputs. (I'd have to check whether the USB input is galvanically isolated as well, a feature generally reserved to more upscale DACs and not found on a basic one like the D10s, which is such is more susceptible to ground loop issues.) You would be buying the RME for its combination of all those features in one box plus pro-level manufacturer support. It's a legit piece of equipment.
Now if you don't actually need any of the DSP features or balanced outputs but do need lower noise or more flexibility in levels, there are several things you can do to pimp a D10s all while still not breaking the bank:
1. It ships with an OPA2134 opamp, a solid performer but not the last word in noise. Since the part is socketed and swappable, I might try some alternative options to lower the noise floor by a few more dB (the DAC chip is actually capable of 128 dB(A)). Maybe LM4562, or OPA1642 on an adapter board, even a trusty NJM4580 would do in a pinch.
2. Adding a low-noise combination headphone amplifier and preamp with adjustable gain and volume control like an L30 or a JDS Labs Atom would increase output dynamic range covered considerably. (About 135 dB global for the Atom, even more for the L30).
If such a combo fits your use case, it is as much as you'll ever need. It's just not as elegant or pretty as a single box solution.
In a preamp replacement DAC you'd really want >120 dB of dynamic range or an output stage gain adjustment - the RME has both so is useful over a super wide range of levels (global non-instantaneous dynamic range coverage is about 132 dB unbalanced and 139 dB balanced), plus it's got an actual volume knob, too. Not to mention its DSP-related functionality. And balanced outputs. And SPDIF coaxial and optical inputs. (I'd have to check whether the USB input is galvanically isolated as well, a feature generally reserved to more upscale DACs and not found on a basic one like the D10s, which is such is more susceptible to ground loop issues.) You would be buying the RME for its combination of all those features in one box plus pro-level manufacturer support. It's a legit piece of equipment.
Now if you don't actually need any of the DSP features or balanced outputs but do need lower noise or more flexibility in levels, there are several things you can do to pimp a D10s all while still not breaking the bank:
1. It ships with an OPA2134 opamp, a solid performer but not the last word in noise. Since the part is socketed and swappable, I might try some alternative options to lower the noise floor by a few more dB (the DAC chip is actually capable of 128 dB(A)). Maybe LM4562, or OPA1642 on an adapter board, even a trusty NJM4580 would do in a pinch.
2. Adding a low-noise combination headphone amplifier and preamp with adjustable gain and volume control like an L30 or a JDS Labs Atom would increase output dynamic range covered considerably. (About 135 dB global for the Atom, even more for the L30).
If such a combo fits your use case, it is as much as you'll ever need. It's just not as elegant or pretty as a single box solution.
Hello,
Here army .02:
I own both, and owned the D10Balanced.
Volume matched blindly testing them, there is an apparent wall, in the bass area on the D10s reproduction.
The note is there, you hear a limited sense of space. Compared with ADI-2 FS, bass frequencies continue with more extension,
and more dynamics. Returned the D10 balanced as there is something very wrong in the hi end, not transparent, as in not the same in as out.
Switching with a hi end monitor controller like Heritage Audio RAM2000 (BB converter), both RME and Heritage, did not presented
the Wall of Sound in the bass.
For the price, D10s, is a very transparent DA, no color added, compared to the analog feed from the Board (SSL Six). Just a bit limited in low end dynamic.
Point is, yes, it can be heard, and yes, there are differences, that the "charts" do not show.
Difference is cost is worth it, and you should listen for yourself, to see what fits your budget and application. Meaning,
if you are not mixing or Mastering, D10s is more than enough.
Peace!
Here army .02:
I own both, and owned the D10Balanced.
Volume matched blindly testing them, there is an apparent wall, in the bass area on the D10s reproduction.
The note is there, you hear a limited sense of space. Compared with ADI-2 FS, bass frequencies continue with more extension,
and more dynamics. Returned the D10 balanced as there is something very wrong in the hi end, not transparent, as in not the same in as out.
Switching with a hi end monitor controller like Heritage Audio RAM2000 (BB converter), both RME and Heritage, did not presented
the Wall of Sound in the bass.
For the price, D10s, is a very transparent DA, no color added, compared to the analog feed from the Board (SSL Six). Just a bit limited in low end dynamic.
Point is, yes, it can be heard, and yes, there are differences, that the "charts" do not show.
Difference is cost is worth it, and you should listen for yourself, to see what fits your budget and application. Meaning,
if you are not mixing or Mastering, D10s is more than enough.
Peace!
While the OPA2134 is not the last word in noise without looking at the circuit, gain, resistor values, etc. it is a stab in the dark that changing the op-amp will make a noticeable difference. Going to higher GBW can even be worse.
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