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Nope. Too rich for my blood anyway.
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Focal Utopia Review (Headphone)
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spartaman64
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i sold my clears (og) to a friend months ago so I probably don't have the best recollection of how they sound. But i have an utopia (2020) now and from my vague memory I don't think they sound exactly the same but ofc at this price point the returns drop off a cliff. I think the utopia is noticeably brighter but the same sort of tuning and has more detail and clarity. But ignoring price if you swapped my utopia with an OG clear I probably wouldn't be too upset. So only if you are really keen on getting the best possible performance lol.
On a side note I do have a different dac than when I had the clears but since this is ASR that shouldn't matter
.I compared the og clear with the og utopia. Tonality-wise they are similar with the only difference of the Utopia being more extended on the upper highs. Soundstage Is similar too. The big difference Is detail retrieval and instrument positioning, the og clear are "veiled” if you listen to them after listening to the Utopia.
Helicopter
Major Contributor
I have original Clear and original Utopia. They are very similar, but Utopia is a little better. Utopia has better spatial effects for me, is a little more clear in high frequencies, handles bass and sub bass better, very similar tonality overall. Utopia also has nicer leather, super cool connectors.
Helicopter
Major Contributor
I think DCA is probably better, but I haven't heard those myself, and am happy enough with Utopia not to worry about it anyway. If I were looking at my first pair in this price range, I would seriously consider DCA. For the $2k deal mentioned above, I'd go for Utopia though.
Luke Lemke
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T
Thanks for the feedback. Have you tried to compare them both when EQed to the Harman target?
Swapping out my Focal Arche for the Topping G5 on the Utopia is eye opening, especially so with Amir’s EQ settings on Roon. I found with the Arche, there was an added warmth when the amp was on the Utopia setting, negating the need for EQ. But I expect there were other things going on introducing distortion limiting resolution. With the G5, and the Utopia EQd, you get spectacular sound with breathtaking resolution and a very natural timbre.
Utopia is barely "better" than a $199 Drop 6XX. It has virtually similar response, in fact 650/6XX is also closer to Harman, and the 6XX also does not have any egregious resonances in significant bands like the Utopia has at 6k, which is not particularly fixable with EQ. Yes the Utopia is better build quality/materials, flagship factor, a bit lower 100-200hz distortion, so I assume it may handle low end EQ better. But I would say this is not even remotely close to "world's best HP" by any objective or holistic product standard, especially when DCA planars or even LCD-5 exists. If someone perhaps had the chance to listen to it and enjoys the the sound of Utopia subjectively, unless they are made of money the most sensible thing to do would be to buy a 6XX and use EQ to match the Utopia, which is probably trivial based how similar the responses are out of the box.
(I'll just add that EQ'd Senn HD560s is probably gonna be better for most people (whilst being cheaper) than EQ'd HD600/650/6XX, because HD560s is lower distortion in bass and better soundstage & imaging - certainly in my own experience which tallies with quite a few accounts from people.)
Looking for an IEM or CIEM that gets close to my Focal Utopia. I own a pair JH Audio Angie CIEM, they are very good but I’ve never gotten them to fit comfortably. Recently ordered the FIIO FD7 from Amazon to give them a try, thinking if Amir recommended the FD5, these might be perhaps better yet. Does anyone have EQ settings for the FD7 that you can share? Also, what IEMs can you recommend for a Utopia fan?
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Crinacle has measured the fd7. You could use his comparison tool to generate an eq from that
Here's the link to Crinacle's graph tool for the FD7 vs the FD5, it looks to be very much a "better FD5", slightly less shouty and less boomy which are the two issues with the FD5.
In-Ear Fidelity – IEM Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of IEMs.
crinacle.com
Click on the EQ tab to equalize it, on the FD5 I drop down the mid-bass a bit and smooth over the wobbly bit in the mid-range, I started with Amir's EQ and tweaked from there. The FD7 looks like it may be tweaked just enough to make the midbass bloat and shoutiness less problematic. Use a tone generator to find where the actual peaks are for your ears, they may not be quite the same as the measurements.
As to other IEMs, if you like the Utopia for its punchiness, you might like the likes of the Dunu Zen which is particularly punchy. I have both, and I like it. It has an unfortunate treble roll-off and slightly too much shout, but it's tuned better stock than the FD5 IMO. I still tend to want to use EQ to bring down 2.5kHz just a touch and if I'm doing that I may as well boost the treble. There's also the Zen Pro (I haven't heard) which improves the treble, but some say doesn't have quite the punch of the predecessor.
Other good options that IMO don't need EQ might include the Moondrop Variations or the ThieAudio Monarch Mk2. These are very well tuned and the Variations in particular has very present bass but they don't quite have punch on the level of the Dunu Zen. They are better overall though IMO.
Thanks for the advice. I ended up canceling the FD7 order, and instead I’ll be visiting JH Audio in Austin to see if they can resolve the fit issues with the Angie CIEMs, which do sound pretty good. The sound isolation of the CIEMs is a huge plus, but these Angie seem too tight.Here's the link to Crinacle's graph tool for the FD7 vs the FD5, it looks to be very much a "better FD5", slightly less shouty and less boomy which are the two issues with the FD5.
In-Ear Fidelity – IEM Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of IEMs.
Click on the EQ tab to equalize it, on the FD5 I drop down the mid-bass a bit and smooth over the wobbly bit in the mid-range, I started with Amir's EQ and tweaked from there. The FD7 looks like it may be tweaked just enough to make the midbass bloat and shoutiness less problematic. Use a tone generator to find where the actual peaks are for your ears, they may not be quite the same as the measurements.
As to other IEMs, if you like the Utopia for its punchiness, you might like the likes of the Dunu Zen which is particularly punchy. I have both, and I like it. It has an unfortunate treble roll-off and slightly too much shout, but it's tuned better stock than the FD5 IMO. I still tend to want to use EQ to bring down 2.5kHz just a touch and if I'm doing that I may as well boost the treble. There's also the Zen Pro (I haven't heard) which improves the treble, but some say doesn't have quite the punch of the predecessor.
Other good options that IMO don't need EQ might include the Moondrop Variations or the ThieAudio Monarch Mk2. These are very well tuned and the Variations in particular has very present bass but they don't quite have punch on the level of the Dunu Zen. They are better overall though IMO.
Also, to be clear, I’m not looking an IEM that replicates the sound of the Utopia. But I am searching for an IEM or CIEM that is equally satisfying to listen to as the Utopias. One that has been recommended to me most often in the audiophile blogs is the Empire Ear Odin. I’m hesitant though as I cannot imagine how one can integrate so many different drivers in a cohesive product.
@PGAMiami If you are new to IEMs, maybe consider something a bit cheaper to start.
I wouldn't personally have picked the FD7 either, the FD5 is not well tuned (I have it), it's much too boomy and then sharp, piercing and uneven in the upper mids / treble. The FD7 does look like an improvement, but there are much better options at that price range.
Empire Ears Odin is extremely expensive but also very well regarded, and widely so, many different reviewers I trust the opinion of put it close to the top of their rankings. Graph looks broadly correct. Having multiple drivers isn't necessarily a problem.
I don't get the impression that JH Audio is particularly well regarded among IEM audio people. Maybe more specifically stage performers, I get the impression that's what they are targeting. That graph looks terrible, look at the huge dips in the upper mids and then again in the treble.
But if you are relatively new to IEMs I wouldn't jump in at >$3,000.
There are severe diminishing returns with IEMs and there is some really good stuff for relatively little money.
The Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk really is excellent, for only $329. This would be a relatively low price to test whether you think a multi-driver config could work. The one weak point of this is the treble, it's not bad but it's not the best you can get. The rest of it, pretty much is there, it's excellent.
Other stuff I like:
Planar: Shuoer S12, 7Hz Timeless
Single DD: Moondrop Kato, Dunu Zen, Sennheiser IE600
Tribrid: Moondrop Variations, Thieaudio Monarch Mk2
Multi-BA: Moondrop A8, Sony IER-M9, Symphonium Helios
I wouldn't personally have picked the FD7 either, the FD5 is not well tuned (I have it), it's much too boomy and then sharp, piercing and uneven in the upper mids / treble. The FD7 does look like an improvement, but there are much better options at that price range.
Empire Ears Odin is extremely expensive but also very well regarded, and widely so, many different reviewers I trust the opinion of put it close to the top of their rankings. Graph looks broadly correct. Having multiple drivers isn't necessarily a problem.
I don't get the impression that JH Audio is particularly well regarded among IEM audio people. Maybe more specifically stage performers, I get the impression that's what they are targeting. That graph looks terrible, look at the huge dips in the upper mids and then again in the treble.
But if you are relatively new to IEMs I wouldn't jump in at >$3,000.
There are severe diminishing returns with IEMs and there is some really good stuff for relatively little money.
The Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk really is excellent, for only $329. This would be a relatively low price to test whether you think a multi-driver config could work. The one weak point of this is the treble, it's not bad but it's not the best you can get. The rest of it, pretty much is there, it's excellent.
Other stuff I like:
Planar: Shuoer S12, 7Hz Timeless
Single DD: Moondrop Kato, Dunu Zen, Sennheiser IE600
Tribrid: Moondrop Variations, Thieaudio Monarch Mk2
Multi-BA: Moondrop A8, Sony IER-M9, Symphonium Helios
You’re convincing me to not invest more time in getting the Angie CIEM to fit.
Thr IEM/CIEM market reminds me of the wine market. Relatively low barrier to entry, huge brand proliferation, high brand name market value, perception (correctly in some instance) that one can find hidden gems …
I prefer CIEMs but for the fact that switching costs are huge.
Where do you believe one gets significantly diminishing returns If one was looking for true reference class performance? 1000? 2000? What would be your top choices if comfort is one of the top 2 or 3 prioritie?
@PGAMiami I think diminishing returns really starts with the Blessing 2 Dusk at $329, it's already that good.
It's very well tuned. Stuff above that is mainly just doing one or other thing slightly better. And in many cases, more expensive stuff isn't overall better, I do have a few more expensive IEMs like the Beyerdynamic Xelento ($1,000) which although I do like it for what it does (great bass) I don't think it's better than the Dusk, the treble is harsher.
If I had to pick one IEM, it would probably be the Monarch Mk2, that sounds right to me and for me it's comfortable. It's quite large though so while I get a really good snug fit others may vary.
If I was prioritizing comfort above sound, the Sony IER-M9 and Sennheiser IE600 are particularly comfortable. Both are quite compact. But I don't think sound is quite at the level of the Monarch Mk2. And in the case of the Sennheiser, there is tuning foam in the tips, limiting you to the Sennheiser tips for the desired stock tuning, and many people don't get on great with them.
I don't think spending more is any guarantee of better, I haven't heard the Angie, but looking at that graph I don't think I'd take it over the Dusk at 1/6th of the price. Part of this is preferences but I have an idea of what I like and don't, and that wouldn't be it.
So I think I'd say, Monarch Mk2- but might be no harm trying the Blessing2 Dusk first simply as it's so much cheaper, really not that far off, and I think if you like the tuning on the Dusk, you'd like the Monarch Mk2, it's sort of like a refined version of the Dusk. I have an idea of my sound preference at this point, and it's pretty much that. But it took a bit of trying different stuff before I worked out this was pretty much my ideal sound signature.
crinacle.com
It's very well tuned. Stuff above that is mainly just doing one or other thing slightly better. And in many cases, more expensive stuff isn't overall better, I do have a few more expensive IEMs like the Beyerdynamic Xelento ($1,000) which although I do like it for what it does (great bass) I don't think it's better than the Dusk, the treble is harsher.
If I had to pick one IEM, it would probably be the Monarch Mk2, that sounds right to me and for me it's comfortable. It's quite large though so while I get a really good snug fit others may vary.
If I was prioritizing comfort above sound, the Sony IER-M9 and Sennheiser IE600 are particularly comfortable. Both are quite compact. But I don't think sound is quite at the level of the Monarch Mk2. And in the case of the Sennheiser, there is tuning foam in the tips, limiting you to the Sennheiser tips for the desired stock tuning, and many people don't get on great with them.
I don't think spending more is any guarantee of better, I haven't heard the Angie, but looking at that graph I don't think I'd take it over the Dusk at 1/6th of the price. Part of this is preferences but I have an idea of what I like and don't, and that wouldn't be it.
So I think I'd say, Monarch Mk2- but might be no harm trying the Blessing2 Dusk first simply as it's so much cheaper, really not that far off, and I think if you like the tuning on the Dusk, you'd like the Monarch Mk2, it's sort of like a refined version of the Dusk. I have an idea of my sound preference at this point, and it's pretty much that. But it took a bit of trying different stuff before I worked out this was pretty much my ideal sound signature.
In-Ear Fidelity – IEM Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of IEMs.
crinacle.com
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