Focal Clear Review (headphone)

[KeithPhantom]

That's what I don't understand, send the victums of headband failure a new headphone - and quickly with a smile - keep good customer relations.

It depends on the company situation. Sometimes, it is more profitable to keep making an error than to fix it, especially when the influx of new customers is larger than the current ones and the complaints are drown in the mysticism and hype of the product.

 

[Daaadou]

Next step is going to be focal clear owner coming after testing amir's killer tracks and see their reaction...
I'll be one for sure in a few days, muhahah!

 

[LightninBoy]

Yet another one of my speaker killers: Burak Malçok - Toz Ruhu

This brings out the problem right at the start:

Level about 17 on RME. The track is not loud at all. The deep bass is there but not loud either. Yet it crackles the poor Forcal Clears.

BTW, these last two tracks are music I like. They are not pathological tracks picked to stress things. I saved them as listening to these albums on my Revel Salon 2 speaker and having them sound wonderful. The Focal Clear as such simply is not suitable for my everyday use.

All 3 tracks reproduced beautifully by my NAD hp50s powered by a behringer UMC404HD. About $200 all in.

Subjectivism is dug in like a tick in the headphone market. Its going to take a lot to dig it out.

 

[Zensō]

This "review" is trying to paint them as a bad headphone and that's simply not true and in fact they are top tier.

Totally disagree. The tendency for the drivers to bottom out is a widely reported characteristic of this headphone (and the Elex), and the manufacturer has even described it as a deliberate design decision. If the manufacturer thinks this particular set of headphones is defective (highly unlikely given their stated design goals), they should supply a replacement for testing.

I own and enjoy the Elex. I knew going in that they have this driver issue and bought them anyway. I listen at relatively low levels and have never had a issue. If I listened at higher volumes I would look elsewhere.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

Cool track!

Okay, in an effort to reproduce your result, I tried volume matching to this, but with my HD58X on an Atom, since I don't have a Clear and an RME ADI-2. Here's what I did, please tell me if I did something wrong ...

Specs:

Focal Clear - 55 ohm, 104dB/mW sensitivity
HD58X - 150 ohm, 104dB/1V sensitivity

RME ADI DAC in high gain - 10Vrms output
JDS Labs Atom in high gain - 8.66rms output

Plugging these numbers into https://www.audiobot9000.com/headphones/calculator, I get the following approximate SPL at max volume in high gain:

Clear on RME - 136dB
HD58X on Atom - 122dB

So on full gain on my Atom, the HD58X is 14dB quieter than the Clear on the RME. You stated that you set the RME to -18dBFS, so I applied -4dB digital pre-gain to my signal so that in theory, I'm now level matched with you.

I turned down the volume on the Atom, started listening to the YouTube recording, then slowly started turning up the volume. Max volume on the Atom was frighteningly loud, even on the quiet part at the beginning, so I immediately backed off. For me, an appropriate listening level on this song is with the volume dial a good bit below the halfway point.

Coming at this from another angle, Stats for Nerds on that video shows that it hits YouTube's volume target without needing any adjustment, which I believe is -14dB LUFS. So at -18dBFS on the RME, that suggests you were listening at 104dB perceived loudness (not peaks), which is very very loud.

Am I understanding this correctly, or did I miss something? Can anyone who happens to have a Clear and an RME ADI2 DAC try to reproduce and see what you get?

-18 dB from 0 dB @ 10 V rms is some 1.26 V rms. On the Clear means (1.26)^2 /55= 28.8 mW or some +14 dB plus 104 or 118 dB SPL (the real SPL peak depending on track loudness). Same 14 dB on 58X but then use voltage 14= 20log(V/1) or 5 V rms ...but that adjusted at DAC 0 dBFS...The real volume determined by rms of the track. An impressive high voltage...better save your headphones ;-)
Track stats: true peak level -0 16 dB
Max momentary loudness -7 8 LUFS
loudness range 8.7 LU
29 Hz -24 dB, 65 Hz -22 dB
Bass content start immediately at -0.6 dB peak 29 Hz

 

[Robbo99999]

Here is one my speaker killer tracks that sends the Focal Clear into a ditch: Pascal Gaigne - Un espejo en el cielo (From "Kamandú, un espejo en el cielo")

It does this with no EQ and with youtube clip:

Deep bass starts at 2:45 (none before that time) and it easily causes crackles at volume level of -18 dB on RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out (1/4 inch - high gain).

Yet another one of my speaker killers: Burak Malçok - Toz Ruhu

This brings out the problem right at the start:

Level about 17 on RME. The track is not loud at all. The deep bass is there but not loud either. Yet it crackles the poor Forcal Clears.

BTW, these last two tracks are music I like. They are not pathological tracks picked to stress things. I saved them as listening to these albums on my Revel Salon 2 speaker and having them sound wonderful. The Focal Clear as such simply is not suitable for my everyday use.

They're both clean bass on my K702 for instance with 4.8dB bass boost at 33Hz and slightly louder than my loudest listening level. I don't crank the volume up insanely though. I was using Atom Amp at Low Gain at 12:30pm position of volume dial, and 85% Windows volume on a 2V DAC (SoundblasterX G6) and a -4.8dB negative preamp too to account for the bass boost.

Robbo99999

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/29ba7f82f0e2ef20c79aa33c39c946ef87e861f1/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Focal Clear / README.md

look carefully at the graphics raw, parametric eq, equalized why there is a filter at 19870 Hz

Yes, that's the AutoEQ project I told you about in a reply to your earlier post in this thread, I advised you to use Oratory's EQ settings instead, which I linked you earlier too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets#wiki_full_list.3A
He uses far more intelligent use of filters, like I've said to you 3 times now it makes no sense to apply high Q filters above 10kHz, so I'd advise you not to use AutoEQ. Besides, you said in your initial post that they did a typo of the Q value at that link you've just provided for the 19kHz filter, I don't think they have, they're using a Q0.36 instead of what you said you think it should be (Q3.6). Don't use a Q3.6 filter at 19kHz it makes no sense, however a Q0.36 make marginally more sense, but like I said again in my initial post to you - Q0.36 doesn't make much sense either as it is starting to cut the frequencies starting from 7kHz, which I think is not required. Either way I advise you not to use the AutoEQ and instead use the filters that are created by Oratory himself which are in the pdf files at the link I gave you in this post, and which I have posted to you before. Please stop going over old ground here, it's a waste of time & space.

 

[Robbo99999]

It's beginning to sound like @amira simply has bad transducers in that headphone, perhaps replace them to be sure? I have heard similar complaints about the bottoming out with distortion on Focal's before being cured with new drivers. I didn't have any links from memory, but found this:

Focal Elex - Mechanical Clipping in Slomo​

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/c8i6nf
Perhaps @amira's test pair is also failing in the same way, with RMA for a new headphone or new drivers and / or better fitment of the driver, the distortion might go away.

In that example he say's he's testing beyond the normal listening levels, but if it's happening during normal listening levels for someones tracks - varying by taste - perhaps it's more a matter of avoiding some music to avoid the distortion?

I'd agree that it sounds like there's unit to unit variation in terms of whether it's bottoming out or not, so I guess it's quite possible Amir has gotten a bad unit. I suppose he could approach the manufacturer and discuss it with them if their headphone should be doing what he's observing given his test conditions.....if it's not performing to spec they could send him another unit.

I wouldn't avoid certain types of music on account of the headphone though, that's no fun!

EDIT: Ok, sorry, read some more comments, someone posted a French customer support note from Focal saying the bottoming out / clicking of the drivers was "normal" at loud listening levels with some music - ok it's not a defect unit Amir has, it's just the headphone. Well that's a bit rubbish.

 

[hmscott]

I'd agree that it sounds like there's unit to unit variation in terms of whether it's bottoming out or not, so I guess it's quite possible Amir has gotten a bad unit. I suppose he could approach the manufacturer and discuss it with them if their headphone should be doing what he's observing given his test conditions.....if it's not performing to spec they could send him another unit.

I wouldn't avoid certain types of music on account of the headphone though, that's no fun!

The message from Focal was apparently out quite a while ago, these guys were talking about it in 2017.

First post (linked below) explaining that their listening isn't abnormal at all and still they had the pop's and clicks.

Then someone speculated perhaps Focal had a bad batch of drivers - there may be some truth in that in that variation from production run to the next might show the problem more than other run's.

I also saw discussed - can't recall where now - about how the variation in Focal driver production was due to the way they were made without support for the coil?

Anyway, there's enough variation that I haven't chanced a Focal purchase for myself, even through a number of "specials" where they unload a bunch of Focal's at discount - I assumed that was how they got rid of "bad batches", but maybe that's too cynical. It doesn't seem to help to buy the Focal's at full retail either:

Here's the links to the discussion on head-fi from 2017:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784236
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784305
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784377

As the guy stuck with a bad pair of Focal Elear's who hadn't heard about the poping and clicking before he purchased them: "...maybe I should read more then..."

Continue reading in that thread for more owners chiming in that they had the same problems.

 

[Robbo99999]

aaa

The message from Focal was apparently out quite a while ago, these guys where talking about it in 2017.

Fist post (linked below) explaining that their listening isn't abnormal at all and still they had the pop's and clicks.

Then someone speculated perhaps Focal had a bad batch of drivers - there may be some truth in that in that variation from production run to the next might show the problem more than other run's.

I also saw discussed - can't recall now - about how the variation in Focal driver production was due to the way they were made without support for the coil?

Anyway, there's enough variation I haven't chanced it myself, even through a number of "specials" where they unload a bunch of Focal's at discount - I assumed that was how they got rid of "bad batches", but maybe that's too cynical.

Here's the links to the discussion on head-fi from 2017:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784236
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784305
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-elear-impressions-thread.811961/post-13784377

As the guy stuck with a bad pair of Focal Elear's, "...maybe I should read more then..."

They sure don't sound reliable anyway. After my last post I read some more comments in this thread and Focal had admitted it was normal behaviour - the click/clipping, so it seems the headphones are unreliable & have variable quality, as well as the company saying it's normal behaviour....not particularly good.

 

[pwjazz]

-18 dB from 0 dB @ 10 V rms is some 1.26 V rms. On the Clear means (1.26)^2 /55= 28.8 mW or some +14 dB plus 104 or 118 dB SPL (the real SPL peak depending on track loudness). Same 14 dB on 58X but then use voltage 14= 20log(V/1) or 5 V rms ...but that adjusted at DAC 0 dBFS...The real volume determined by rms of the track. An impressive high voltage...better save your headphones ;-)

I think your calculations neglect that I'm applying -4dB of digital pre-gain for the HD58X. Without that, yes, at full volume the HD58X would be playing at closer to 122dB, but with it we're looking at 118dB. Either way, we're talking about very, very loud volumes.

 

[amirm]

I think your calculations neglect that I'm applying -4dB of digital pre-gain for the HD58X. Without that, yes, at full volume the HD58X would be playing at closer to 122dB, but with it we're looking at 118dB. Either way, we're talking about very, very loud volumes.

Once again, no. Read the post from the head-fi thread above:

Can someone clarify please. I too bought Elear's, listened to my first track from Max Richter first impression lovely, I might even sell my HD650's. Next track, War Anthem again Max Richter, as soon as it started with the strong bass/sub-bass "crack, pop, click, crack".

Now, I take damn good care of my hearing, I'm blessed with sharp hearing and at the age off 54 I feel blessed. I spend a lot of time out wild camping and hear things many can not, needless to say if I lost any sensitivity I'd be devastated, can't smell worth a damn mind you! lol

What I'm trying to say is I don't listen at extreme levels, it hurts. The crack from the driver actually hurt, the bass was not hurting and NOT at any higher level than I listen with my HD650. No extra gain, source direct from my PC / Qobuz to Regen to Marantz PM7005 DAC.

I returned them without listening further, very disappointed.

 

[Maki]

For what it's worth my Utopias do not clip, even upon application of a sub-bass boost (7dB@20Hz) with Amir's test tracks. I used to own Elears and did not run into the clipping issue either. However, my listening volumes are way lower than Amir's for sure, and probably lower than average to be honest. Utopias also seem to have better QC than Clears (as should be expected of a product of this price) which are themselves better QC'd than the Elex which is notorious for driver failures and other assorted ailments and absolutely unacceptable for a headphone of any price. I no longer own the Elears as the upper mids were a disaster which not even EQ could fix.

 

[CtheArgie]

This is a very confusing issue. I am sure that @amirm is reporting what he found. No doubt. I have Elegias, I tried these two selections as loud as I can tolerate them. I tried way louder than what I would ever listen to music and cannot find these issues with my headphones. Different model, I know, but the issue does not appear to coexist with the Elegia. One wonders.

By the way, the music selections are very good!

 

[Guenselmann]

Here is one my speaker killer tracks that sends the Focal Clear into a ditch: Pascal Gaigne - Un espejo en el cielo (From "Kamandú, un espejo en el cielo")

It does this with no EQ and with youtube clip:

Deep bass starts at 2:45 (none before that time) and it easily causes crackles at volume level of -18 dB on RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out (1/4 inch - high gain).

Just tried this track as well and it mirrors my experience from earlier post: I can reproduce the issue, but only at volume levels which make me physically uncomfortable.

However, I find the conclusions of the review fair given that Amir can only test what he has in his hands. Maybe the evaluated unit is defective, maybe only older units are affected, maybe it is a QC issue. The problem is there and it should not be in this price range. I think it is justified to err on the side of caution and not recommend the product.

 

[esm]

FWIW: with no EQ applied at all, the beginning of that Burak Malçok track (played through an A90/D90 stack, not that it matters) is death to my Clear Pros. The worst of it only happens at higher gains than I normally listen, but you can hear it starting to break up even at the levels I'm usually at.

Yikes, it's been a while since I heard that (I generally work around the problem when I'm using them), I'd forgotten how incredibly disconcerting it is.

(My Clear Pros were ordered mid-2018, in case that ends up being relevant.)

 

[Jimbob54]

Here is one my speaker killer tracks that sends the Focal Clear into a ditch: Pascal Gaigne - Un espejo en el cielo (From "Kamandú, un espejo en el cielo")

It does this with no EQ and with youtube clip:

Deep bass starts at 2:45 (none before that time) and it easily causes crackles at volume level of -18 dB on RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out (1/4 inch - high gain).

Left cup, crack. Uurgh. Probably louder than I would normally go to induce it, but annoying.

 

[617]

Amir I think I saw you at whole foods today

 

[Francis Vaughan]

I think it is really important to emphasise that the notional listening levels do not directly translate to driver excursion. You must take the actual frequency into account. And it is brutal. Four times excursion for each octave drop in frequency. Saying a track was listened to at xxx dB is near useless.
Thumping popular music with apparently loud bass may actually have little energy lower than 50hz. But another apparently benign track could have energy at 25 Hz and easily send the drivers way past their limits. Percussion can be very difficult to guess.
There is a habit of interpreting the distortion graphs in the same way one does amplifier or DAC numbers. One cannot do this. The underlying physics of what is going on and what matters is very different.

 

[pwjazz]

Once again, no. Read the post from the head-fi thread above:

Can someone clarify please. I too bought Elear's, listened to my first track from Max Richter first impression lovely, I might even sell my HD650's. Next track, War Anthem again Max Richter, as soon as it started with the strong bass/sub-bass "crack, pop, click, crack".

Now, I take damn good care of my hearing, I'm blessed with sharp hearing and at the age off 54 I feel blessed. I spend a lot of time out wild camping and hear things many can not, needless to say if I lost any sensitivity I'd be devastated, can't smell worth a damn mind you! lol

What I'm trying to say is I don't listen at extreme levels, it hurts. The crack from the driver actually hurt, the bass was not hurting and NOT at any higher level than I listen with my HD650. No extra gain, source direct from my PC / Qobuz to Regen to Marantz PM7005 DAC.

I returned them without listening further, very disappointed.

I'm not questioning the driver rattle or trying to defend the Focal Clear. I don't own one nor do I intend to buy one, so I have no dog in this hunt.

What I am trying to do is establish an objective reference for the volume at which you collect your listening impressions so that readers might relate your impressions to their own listening behavior. Most headphone reviewers don't disclose this and it's a shame, because volume makes a huge difference in the subjective experience (including but not limited to the effects of equal loudness). Given the measurement orientation of this forum, having actual measurements here seems consistent with the ethos, no?

Maybe my suggestions to this point haven't been the best(?), but this seems like a solvable problem and I'd love to hear alternative suggestions for solving it.

 

[sacguy231]

This is a very confusing issue. I am sure that @amirm is reporting what he found. No doubt. I have Elegias, I tried these two selections as loud as I can tolerate them. I tried way louder than what i would ver listen to music and cannot find these issue with my headphones. Different model, I know, but the issue does not appear to coexist with the Elegia. One wonders.

By the way, the music selections are very good!

I have had the Elear, the Clear, (both have been sold) and the Elegia (still own these). The Elegias are the only ones that did not exhibit the clipping problem for me and I'm wondering if Focal silently addressed the issue since the Elegia is a newer model. To confirm, my experiences with clipping were at tolerable and safe levels, albeit only when there were very heavy bass tracks/moments in a song. I have never encountered any other headphone that clipped like these did. I'm also wondering how much variation there is within a model range; perhaps some Clears are more problematic than others. In any case, I'm happy with my Elegias other than the terrible stock cable.