Focal Aria with Polk Legend centre?

[Monosauras]

Hey everyone

I’ve demoed some floor standing speakers over the past couple of days and have narrowed down my choices to two:

- Polk R700
- Focal Aria 926

I demoed them on different days, in different rooms, but tomorrow I’ll be able to demo them side by side. Based on what I’ve heard so far though, I’m leaning towards the Focal.

However, this is going to be used 70/30 home theatre/music, so I’ll need a good centre to match with them. Alas, this I cannot demo.

The Polk are easy, I would go up a series and get the Polk L400. The Focal are a little tougher, though. The Focal Aria CC900 is available, but is MTM (Polk is WMTW).

Would it be ok to mix in the Polk centre with the Focal fronts? Otherwise, do people have experiences with the Focal centre vs Polk?

Thank you

 

[warpdrive]

I would say the poor dispersion of a MTM would be more noticeable than any timbre mismatch between the center/mains because I have a fairly wide area of seating. If you are mostly sitting close to the center, then MTM is much less an issue.

 

[fubarnow]

At my house we mix brands and it sounds great.

 

[Monosauras]

I would say the poor dispersion of a MTM would be more noticeable than any timbre mismatch between the center/mains because I have a fairly wide area of seating. If you are mostly sitting close to the center, then MTM is much less an issue.

I don’t think there will ever be more than 4 people watching at once, so maybe MTM won’t be an issue. The Focal Aria CC900 is back on the table, I just wish I could find some comparisons of it.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hey everyone

I’ve demoed some floor standing speakers over the past couple of days and have narrowed down my choices to two:

- Polk R700
- Focal Aria 926

I demoed them on different days, in different rooms, but tomorrow I’ll be able to demo them side by side. Based on what I’ve heard so far though, I’m leaning towards the Focal.

However, this is going to be used 70/30 home theatre/music, so I’ll need a good centre to match with them. Alas, this I cannot demo.

The Polk are easy, I would go up a series and get the Polk L400. The Focal are a little tougher, though. The Focal Aria CC900 is available, but is MTM (Polk is WMTW).

Would it be ok to mix in the Polk centre with the Focal fronts? Otherwise, do people have experiences with the Focal centre vs Polk?

Thank you

Here is also some more general advice on center speakers. Erin next to Amir is one of the few who owns a state of the art Klippel speaker measurement and posts measurements here and on his website.

In general matched center and mains speaker are usually recommended but that is not to say there is no exception.

 

[Monosauras]

Here is also some more general advice on center speakers. Erin next to Amir is one of the few who owns a state of the art Klippel speaker measurement and posts measurements here and on his website.

In general matched center and mains speaker are usually recommended but that is not to say there is no exception.

Very informative video. I'll have to watch it again to let it all sink in, though

Makes me think though, am I letting best be the enemy of good here?

I was able to audition the Polk against the Focal yesterday.

Polk had such a wider soundstage than the Focal did, but then, he had them setup considerably narrower than he had the Polk I'll need to try to audition again with the Focal setup farther apart.

The Focal's sounded so nicely detailed to me, however the sound was very directional. I could pinpoint the source of the sound without any difficulty. Still, voices were so present. They'd be the clear winner if only they had a little less directionality to them.

The Polk lacked a lot of that detail, but they hid so well. When A/Bing the speakers, I could precisely pinpoint that the sound was coming from the Focal, but I had to put my hand near the drivers of the Polk to make sure the sound was actually coming from them and not elsewhere.

Honestly I think I'd have bought the Focal already if not for the centre putting me off. But maybe that's a manufactured problem?

I started to think about using a 906 bookshelf as my centre, and wouldn't you know it, the video you linked directed me to this thread as well (MTM vs Bookshelf for centre channel), which happens to be my same dilemma (matching the 2 way MTM Focal centre with the 926).

I'm starting to wonder then if I am trying to solve problems by creating problems?

I hadn't even heard of Focal this time last week!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Very informative video. I'll have to watch it again to let it all sink in, though

Makes me think though, am I letting best be the enemy of good here?

I was able to audition the Polk against the Focal yesterday.

Polk had such a wider soundstage than the Focal did, but then, he had them setup considerably narrower than he had the Polk I'll need to try to audition again with the Focal setup farther apart.

The Focal's sounded so nicely detailed to me, however the sound was very directional. I could pinpoint the source of the sound without any difficulty. Still, voices were so present. They'd be the clear winner if only they had a little less directionality to them.

The Polk lacked a lot of that detail, but they hid so well. When A/Bing the speakers, I could precisely pinpoint that the sound was coming from the Focal, but I had to put my hand near the drivers of the Polk to make sure the sound was actually coming from them and not elsewhere.

Honestly I think I'd have bought the Focal already if not for the centre putting me off. But maybe that's a manufactured problem?

I started to think about using a 906 bookshelf as my centre, and wouldn't you know it, the video you linked directed me to this thread as well (MTM vs Bookshelf for centre channel), which happens to be my same dilemma (matching the 2 way MTM Focal centre with the 926).

I'm starting to wonder then if I am trying to solve problems by creating problems?

I hadn't even heard of Focal this time last week!

You need to compare them at home. Simply put: The room will have a huge effect. And sometimes speakers which sound “detailed” (whatever that means exactly) can sound “bright” in a different room. Also try to at least level match them, at least using your phone (it is very inaccurate but better than nothing).

 

[Monosauras]

You need to compare them at home.

That's a shame
I'm in Australia, and we have VERY good long term consumer protections, but change of mind returns is purely up to the retailer, and big box aside, is at best unopened box only, at worse unopened AND 30% restocking fee.

 

[polmuaddib]

When A/Bing the speakers, I could precisely pinpoint that the sound was coming from the Focal, but I had to put my hand near the drivers of the Polk to make sure the sound was actually coming from them and not elsewhere.

I am sorry, maybe I don't undersand you right. You want to hear that sound comes from specific speaker?
I have spent a lot of time and money to get the oposite. The goal is to get the soundstage and not notice the individual speaker.

I do like the illusion of pinpointing instruments in a soundstage. But hearing a speaker in a way that I know where the sound is coming from? It annoys me.
It's usually the consequence of a high trebble. It can sound inviting in the beginning, but can lead to fatigue later.

Of course, it's not the end of the world if you make a mistake when buying Hi-Fi.
You return or sell the speakers you don't like and get another. Part of the hobby.

 

[delta76]

I am sorry, maybe I don't undersand you right. You want to hear that sound comes from specific speaker?
I have spent a lot of time and money to get the oposite. The goal is to get the soundstage and not notice the individual speaker.

I do like the illusion of pinpointing instruments in a soundstage. But hearing a speaker in a way that I know where the sound is coming from? It annoys me.
It's usually the consequence of a high trebble. It can sound inviting in the beginning, but can lead to fatigue later.

Of course, it's not the end of the world if you make a mistake when buying Hi-Fi.
You return or sell the speakers you don't like and get another. Part of the hobby.

It is not something many people can afford. Either the lost of time and lost of money.

I am a frequent seller on local marketplace (probably need to moderate my buying), but with the numbers of shame offers i have received, i would not be interested in buying, trying and reselling if it does not work. Better buy once and be done

 

[Monosauras]

I am sorry, maybe I don't undersand you right. You want to hear that sound comes from specific speaker?
I have spent a lot of time and money to get the oposite. The goal is to get the soundstage and not notice the individual speaker.

I do like the illusion of pinpointing instruments in a soundstage. But hearing a speaker in a way that I know where the sound is coming from? It annoys me.
It's usually the consequence of a high trebble. It can sound inviting in the beginning, but can lead to fatigue later.

Of course, it's not the end of the world if you make a mistake when buying Hi-Fi.
You return or sell the speakers you don't like and get another. Part of the hobby.

Sorry, needed to make myself clearer. At least for how the Polk and Focal were setup:
Polk
+ Wide soundstage
- Vocals lacked presence

Aria
+ Nicely detailed
+ Vocals had a real presence to them
- I could pinpoint the exact speaker the sound was coming from

However, I'm a little underwhelmed by the setup. The Polk were a good 30 degrees off axis. while the Aria were a far narrower 20 (or even less) degrees.

 

[Monosauras]

It is not something many people can afford. Either the lost of time and lost of money.

I am a frequent seller on local marketplace (probably need to moderate my buying), but with the numbers of shame offers i have received, i would not be interested in buying, trying and reselling if it does not work. Better buy once and be done

Yep. This.

I'm upgrading from a pair of Jamo E680 towers, Jamo E6 Cen.5, and Jamo E610 bookshelves that I bought around 2006 or so. I get the hobby, and won't knock anyone who likes to change frequently, but it just isn't doable for me. I will likely post again in 2048 asking for some more advice.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Sorry, needed to make myself clearer. At least for how the Polk and Focal were setup:
Polk
+ Wide soundstage
- Vocals lacked presence

Aria
+ Nicely detailed
+ Vocals had a real presence to them
- I could pinpoint the exact speaker the sound was coming from

However, I'm a little underwhelmed by the setup. The Polk were a good 30 degrees off axis. while the Aria were a far narrower 20 (or even less) degrees.

The different positioning already can make all the difference in the world - see SBIR and room modes. That's why I dont make a purchase decision, based on what I hear at dealers, but I know, not everyone has that possibility. So at least make sure the speakers are positioned identical and the SPL is matched as closely as possible (otherwise the somewhat louder speaker and it does not take much, will always be perceived as better - it is the oldest trick in the book, some dealers crank up the volume slightly of the more expensive speaker). Ideally, you have Spinoramas of both speakers available, I dont know, though as I havent looked. That will tell you a lot, if you know, how to read it. I only buy speakers, where I have an independent spin or at least very reliable manufacturer data (e.g. KEF, Genelec, Neumann, etc) available.

 

[Monosauras]

So at least make sure the speakers are positioned identical and the SPL is matched as closely as possible (otherwise the somewhat louder speaker and it does not take much, will always be perceived as better - it is the oldest trick in the book, some dealers crank up the volume slightly of the more expensive speaker)

Great advice. I'll do that this week.

Thanks all for the continued advice!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Great advice. I'll do that this week.

Thanks all for the continued advice!

See also my edit... sorry, came afterwards. Do spinoramas exist for those speakers?

 

[Monosauras]

Ideally, you have Spinoramas of both speakers available, I dont know, though as I havent looked. That will tell you a lot, if you know, how to read it. I only buy speakers, where I have an independent spin or at least very reliable manufacturer data (e.g. KEF, Genelec, Neumann, etc) available.

The only data I can find is about the 936 which have an extra woofer, and the 906 which are 2 way.

R700 measurements are here, but couldn't find Spin data on those either.

That said...

 

[HarmonicTHD]

The only data I can find is about the 936 which have an extra woofer, and the 906 which are 2 way.

R700 measurements are here, but couldn't find Spin data on those either.

That said...

View attachment 262489

Well at least you got the safety goggles or the audio equivalent, you come here to the forum and ask questions ;-)

Let me have a look around.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

The only data I can find is about the 936 which have an extra woofer, and the 906 which are 2 way.

R700 measurements are here, but couldn't find Spin data on those either.

That said...

View attachment 262489

So I had a brief look around.

Focal Aria 926: You are right, there is nothing there what I could find either. For me it is always kind of off putting if a speaker manufacturer at this price range, can not even publish some data. Unless I overlooked a source, that alone for me would rule out the Focal.

Polk 700: The review, you linked from James Larson, looks very good indeed. Some of the graphs, the smoothing is not clear, but from what is there. Not bad, not bad at all. The FR (frequency response) is quite linear, the spin looks quite smooth which is an indicator of good directivity, with no major dips or discontinuitities (the colored thing)

Alternatives: Does your dealer also carry KEF, so you could have a listen too? e.g. their R Series (Erin measured the R5 and sure because it is bass shy due to the small woofers it otherwise measures very well). For more bass the R7 or even R11, but those might be out of your budget. In general subs are recommended anyhow (at some point, once you can afford them, in order to counter the room modes, so that is why some take the lower bass performance speakers and simply add sub(s).). KEF also publishes some meaningful data (Neumann, Genelec too...), which personally I find much more forthcomming, than what e.g. Focal is doing.
E.g. KEF White Paper R Series, R7 - you see all colored lines look similar in shape, which is a first indication of good directivity (no major dips or discontinuities).

When you go listen to the dealer next time (next to somewhat level matching) also have a look or take a picture of their room. There are some dealers in my area, which have very dampened listening rooms (padding, thick carpet, drapes, acoustic panels etc), which differs greatly what most people have likely in their living rooms. In such a dampened room, speakers which sound "detailed" are often perceived as "harsh, fatiquing, bright" when put into the average living room. This is why people often say, that the newer B&W speakers are tuned for these type of dealer showrooms, as they are showing a rise in output in the upper frequency range. In contrast, speakers as the Polk or the KEF above can be perceived as "less detailed, or muffeled" in these dampened showrooms, but are great in the average living room, plus due to their good directivity can be EQed to be brighter within reasoable limits, if prefered. Both Polk and KEF have very even FR response and ok directivity, so you would not buy a dud either way.

Edit: typos.

 

[Monosauras]

There are some dealers in my area, which have very dampened listening rooms (padding, thick carpet, drapes, acoustic panels etc), which differs greatly what most people have likely in their living rooms. In such a dampened room, speakers which sound "detailed" are often perceived as "harsh, fatiquing, bright" when put into the average living room.

Ah. That is interesting.

So I have listened to the Polk in two different rooms, and the Focal in two different rooms.

Room A
Listened to the Polk (against a set of Dali Oberon).
Was a large rectangular room with 3 walls. Probably 6-7m deep by 4-5m wide. No door or door way, just opened up to the rest of the showroom. I noticed bass traps in the corner and acoustic panels to the right.
Polk sounded detailed and open (in comparison to the Dali).

Room B
Listened to the Focal (against a set of Q Acoustics Concept 40).
Was a small square “room” (cubicle). Maybe 2.5m X 2.5m. Glass sliding doors taking up most of the back wall. There was a large diffusion panel on the back wall along with a bunch of acoustic panels either side.
Focal sounded present, detailed, and wide. QA sounded similar, though a tad lifeless.

Room C
Listened to Focal against Polk.
Room was rectangular, and closed door. About 4m wide by 5mdeep. Left wall covered in cinema type curtains, and right wall had large acoustic panels across it.
Focal sounded detailed but directional, Polk sounded wide but less detailed, or yes, muffled.

Each room was carpeted.

At someone else’s recommendation I’ll try to listen to Wharfedale Evo speakers, and at yours I will try the KEF, and I’ll try to take photos of the rooms.

Well, I’m just as unsure as I was before, but I’m feeling I am more educated! Thank you!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Ah. That is interesting.

So I have listened to the Polk in two different rooms, and the Focal in two different rooms.

Room A
Listened to the Polk (against a set of Dali Oberon).
Was a large rectangular room with 3 walls. Probably 6-7m deep by 4-5m wide. No door or door way, just opened up to the rest of the showroom. I noticed bass traps in the corner and acoustic panels to the right.
Polk sounded detailed and open (in comparison to the Dali).

Room B
Listened to the Focal (against a set of Q Acoustics Concept 40).
Was a small square “room” (cubicle). Maybe 2.5m X 2.5m. Glass sliding doors taking up most of the back wall. There was a large diffusion panel on the back wall along with a bunch of acoustic panels either side.
Focal sounded present, detailed, and wide. QA sounded similar, though a tad lifeless.

Room C
Listened to Focal against Polk.
Room was rectangular, and closed door. About 4m wide by 5mdeep. Left wall covered in cinema type curtains, and right wall had large acoustic panels across it.
Focal sounded detailed but directional, Polk sounded wide but less detailed, or yes, muffled.

Each room was carpeted.

At someone else’s recommendation I’ll try to listen to Wharfedale Evo speakers, and at yours I will try the KEF, and I’ll try to take photos of the rooms.

Well, I’m just as unsure as I was before, but I’m feeling I am more educated! Thank you!

Ah yes interesting. Only Room C is somewhat valid (remember not level matched) and based on your description of the showroom, I would go with the Polk over the Focal as there is a very good chance the Focals will be overly bright in your living room (plus the Polks measure real well too). A likely reason for the perceived "muffled" sound of the Polk can be this:

See where the "red thingy" become more narrow around 6kHz. This means the tweeter radiates less energy to the sides and in a dampened room that most likely will lead to that "muffled" perception. Also, in context, what James Larson writes "... This is a neutral loudspeaker. The on-axis window would be characterized as +/-1.5dB from 200Hz to 20kHz by our measurements. This is exceptionally good, especially for this price range. We do see that the tweeter loses off-axis dispersion above 6kHz and beams in a fairly narrow pattern by 10kHz. At high treble frequencies, output is down considerably outside of a 25-degree angle. While listeners don’t need to be dead on-axis to hear the full range of treble from the R700s, they should be roughly around the on-axis angle, so these speakers might require a slight toe-in for an optimal listening experience..." (which means, point them more at you, so you get as much direct sound as possible - also good for more precise sound stage).

(Hint: Watch some of Erin´s Audio Corner videos, you will learn about what measurements will tell you and you will often hear him saying, how different a speaker sounded when listening in his home theater (dampened) vs his living room (less dampened).

As for the Wharfedale Evo 4.1 (see here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wharfedale-evo-4-1-review-speaker.28305/). It is ok for its price, but nowhere near the Polk R700 in terms of Frequency response flatness, directivity and it will run out of steam at louder volume in larger (living) rooms (see 96dbSPL distortions) and you would definetly need subs.

To decide between Polk and e.g. KEF you have to have them in one room. Everything else is futile as the room influences the sound by orders of magnitudes more than anything else. The smallest KEF floorstander, the R5 is measured here: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r5/ just FYI, but it needs a sub IMHO and I would look at the R7. (note that Erin, similar to Amir, does not have an conflict of interest as many other YouTubers/Reviewers have).

Furthermore, there is the Revel brand, but that is only very difficult to come across where I live, but Revel (formerly Harman) uses similar engineering principles - flat frequency and good directivity, in their design as KEF, Neumann, Genelec or in the above case apparently the Polk R700. So maybe those are alternatives for you too, if available in Australia.