Final Audio Electrostatic Speakers

[goryu]

Final Audio, an electrostatic speaker manufacturer in the Netherlands, first produced speakers back in the early 2000's, changed ownership, then the original owner restarted the company a few years ago. Now they are building out a distributor base in Europe and North America.

There new line features state of the art materials and design. They have exhibited recently at several of the large audio shows in Europe. They have a new distributor in the US and I am wondering what those who have heard or are familiar with their new models think of them. I am considering purchase and there isn't a lot of info available on the web. I am located in the US and a purchase would require a bit of a leap of faith so hoping to hear from those with some familiarity with the brand.

Thank you and happy New Year to all...

 

[goryu]

N/A

Room doesn't exist anymore. - Most likely incorrect anyways.

audiosciencereview.com

I updated my old post.

Admittedly, I haven't owned the electrostatics in 3-4 years now, but I did like them while I owned them more than the Magnepan 1.7's and & JBL 306ii's I also had at the same time in the same room comparing side by side with room correction on all 3.

They really need room correction and a sub or two. They are definitely not flat out of the box & really only go down to about 70hz at -6 despite the specs saying much better. For that reason I wouldn't buy the super large expensive ones as they won't go much lower really and still would require a sub. In fact, the smallest Final F90i I owned was the flattest by far! I liked them though while I had them and sometimes wish I still had them, but maybe if I had them in the same room as my Neumanns I might think otherwise now?

Either way, if you have money to blow, they are probably the best electrostatic speakers you can buy if that's your thing.

The new Final line has a totally different design and the lastest tech in coatings/membrane so probably not really comparable to the old i line. Thanks though for your thoughts, much appreciated.

 

[Flexecutioner]

I haven't heard them, but I've noticed them disguising retail advertisements as "For Sale" postings to websites like Audiogon and USAudioMart . Really strange. Looks like the sites finally realized what was going on and removed them. Either way, I wouldn't buy from a company that tries to drive sales through gimmicks like that, especially at that price. There are too many other options to risk it.

 

[goryu]

Not sure what you mean by "removed" as all the ads are still there on Audiogon and USAudioMart when I check.

The ads are a bit off, I agree...

 

[Flexecutioner]

You're right. I think my search options prevented me from seeing them. At least they are now listed as dealer ads. I don't think that was the case for previous postings, but the ads look the same.

 

[welwynnick]

I only just noticed today that Final have started up again.
I have several of their speakers from many years ago (and many have failed).
They weren't reliable - I hope they're better now.
I used to work in a high end HiFi store, and one of the few products that really left a lasting impression on me were Audiostatic ES200 electrostatic speakers.
Everything else sounded muddled in comparison, even Quad and Martin Logan electrostatics.
Determined to find something to recapture that vivid memory, I tried some Final speakers, and though they're hardly a universal solution for everyone, they brought the magic back. They were so incredibly transparent they made it child's play to hear the differences between even very high quality partnering electronics.
Once you've heard something like Audiostatic or Final, it makes you question why anyone would ever want conventional speakers ever again.
And then you think directivity, dynamic range, bass extension, size, cost, reliability, sweet spot .......
I'm really pleased to hear they're back on the market, though.

 

[mhardy6647]

I only just noticed today that Final have started up again.

Final... started up again.
There's some sort of irony there, but I am not quite sure what it is.

 

[goryu]

I was working with them a year ago to buy a pair. We agreed I could pick them up at the Axpona show in Chicago. I was told to expect at least a 15% discount on the price. I booked a room at a hotel, bought tickets, and about a week or two before the event the US distributor asked me to pay for them before coming down. I asked for an invoice. He told me I would have to pay shipping because they weren't going to bring that model to the show (thought they said they were previously), he told me I would have to pay sales tax (I explained to him previously that I was responsible according to WI state law for out of state purchases that incurred sales tax unless the merchant was registered with the WI Dept of Rev., which they were not. I sent him links to the laws but he insisted I pay him sales tax- another $400 or so), and the discount he offered was much less than the "at least 15%" he had originally promised. I was disappointed at the broken promises and the obvious efforts to wring every cent out of me. I had asked the owner a few questions about the specs which he answered in part after I emailed a few times. I heard from someone that knows him that he was calling me "his American stalker". I got a few emails from people who had had bad customer service experiences with them in the past as well as durability issues with their products. Once I took all of this in and gave it some thought, I realized they just weren't the kind of people or company that I could trust or wanted to do business with. I would warn others to think long and hard before you buy a product from these people with their history of product reliability, bankruptcy, and poor customer service. It wouldn't be much fun to have to ship a large set of 'stats from the US to Europe for repair or service.

 

[mhardy6647]

^^^ yikes!

 

[HighResHiFi]

Dear Electrostatic Speaker fans and Audiophiles,

The time has come to address the misinformation and disinformation floating across the internet related to our company, Final Audio, manufacturer of world class ElectroStatic Loudspeakers (ESLs) from Netherlands, representing the culmination of 35 years of experience developing state-of-the-art ESL technologies. Our mission, "Where Art and Science meet to deliver the highest quality sound at the highest value"

FINAL’S HISTORY:

Early Years of FINAL (1989-2002):

• Our founders, Maarten Smits and his brother Michiel Smits, from Netherlands, founded Final in 1989, developing their first hybrid speaker, the 0.3, (combining dynamic and electrostatic technologies) as Engineering graduate students. They are known for their innovative approach to electrostatic speaker design and the use of advanced materials and initially targeted the audiophile market exclusively in the 1990s.
• In 2002, the company received a U.S. patent on a breakthrough technology that made it possible to create modular electrostatic speakers - separate the speaker panel from its transformer and audio electronics. This simplified the manufacturing process, lowered the cost of production, and expanded the market potential for high-definition electrostatic speakers into the rapidly growing area of home theater.

Acquisition in 2003, FINAL SOUND brand:

• In early 2003, a group of former PHILIPS managers acquired FINAL and formed FINAL SOUND SOLUTIONS under the FINAL SOUND brand which has established itself as a full-line manufacturer of the world's lightest electrostatic speakers.
• The Smits brothers left at the end of 2003 because they did not agree with the policy decisions of Ex-Philips management who wanted to grow FINAL SOUND SOLUTIONS quickly through cost cutting decisions that compromised product quality and reliability.
• FINAL SOUND SOLUTIONS went bankrupt in 2012 leaving the US market with abandoned customers and no support.
• However, the Smits, while working as industry consultants focused on developing advanced printing technologies, continued providing service and support from Netherlands for FINAL SOUND products out of goodwill and product enthusiasm, though they were not part of the FINAL SOUND company for decades.

FINAL AUDIO launch in 2017:

• In 2017, FINAL AUDIO, the new company founded with Maarten and his brother, presented a newly developed line of electrostats with an all-new design ACRYLIC panels, TEONEX diaphragms and ULTRA WIDE BANDWIDTH transformers at the 2018 Munich High End Show.
• FINAL AUDIO is currently operating from the Netherlands, actively pursuing sales in global markets and continues to enthusiastically support past FINAL SOUND’s global customers to this day!
• FINAL AUDIO debuted in the US at AXPONA 2024 and then at THE SHOW SoCal 2024 and 2025.
• HighResHiFi LLC, wholly owned by Ravi Velnati, is the sole Distributor of FINAL AUDIO ESLs for the US Market.
• Ravi is a career Automotive Product Development Engineering Professional and a diehard lifelong planar electrostatic audiophile, responsible for launching, growing, and supporting FINAL AUDIO in the U.S. market.
• Comprehensive product sales & technical support is offered in the US market by HighResHiFi LLC, Phoenix, Arizona.
• The modular ultra-light weight design of the speakers makes them easily detachable, serviceable and / or replaceable.
• To date, multiple pairs of all Final ESL models were sold nationwide, enjoyed by many happy and satisfied audiophile customers!
• All US market FINAL and FINAL SOUND customers can contact HighResHiFi LLC at 248-520-8628 for product support and upgrades.

Wishing all of you happy listening and musical enjoyment from this wonderful hobby of ours for years to come!

 

[goryu]

• In 2002, the company received a U.S. patent on a breakthrough technology that made it possible to create modular electrostatic speakers - separate the speaker panel from its transformer and audio electronics. This simplified the manufacturing process, lowered the cost of production, and expanded the market potential for high-definition electrostatic speakers into the rapidly growing area of home theater.

Acoustat electrostatic speakers made in the 1980's and 1990's had separate panels and interfaces (transformers and electronics). Breakthrough technology? Sounds like more hyperbole.

As to the rest, see my post above. The new product could be the best speaker in the world but based on their poor customer service, broken promises, and ethical deficiencies, I would never consider doing business with this company or their US rep. Buyer beware.

 

[HighResHiFi]

• See above for FINAL's history
• Final stands by the customer, above and beyond many competitors!
• The technology speaks for itself!
• I would recommend seeking feedback from any of the happy current owners!

• All NEW Final Audio Model 15 Electrostatic Loudspeakers Review : Taking Electrostatic Loudspeakers To A Whole New Level !

  Paul graciously hosted our group to hear the Final M35 ESL. They were perhaps not fully broken in yet. I came away thinking they had promise, but I noted some limitations. I missed another opportunity more recently to hear them with the big Krell amp. I would like to know how they might have...

  www.whatsbestforum.com
• Offered 15% discount for a DEMO model pick up after demo is completed at the show
• Due to change of SHOW demo plans, the black Model 12 was replaced by M15 in Chrome and High Gloss Blue, UPS had damaged the Flagship M35 which was then replaced by the M15 in the last minute
• Still offered additional 10% discount to promote customer satisfaction, despite paying for a separate shipment @ additional expense of $1000,
• Breaking tax laws for any customer is not feasible and against the law per the USA-Netherlands Tax treaty and the requirement to charge destination sales tax based on buyer zip code

 

[goryu]

More

• The technology speaks for itself!
• Due to change of SHOW demo plans, the black Model 12 was replaced by M15 in Chrome and High Gloss Blue, UPS had damaged the Flagship M35 which was then replaced by the M15 in the last minute
• Still offered additional 10% discount to promote customer satisfaction, despite paying for a separate shipment @ additional expense of $1000,
• Breaking tax laws for any customer is not feasible and against the law per the USA-Netherlands Tax treaty and the requirement to charge destination sales tax based on buyer zip code

The technology speaks for itself? Too soon to say whether it will flame out like earlier Final technology or last 40+ years like Acoustat. With repair work needed in the Netherlands if (when?) something goes wrong, I wouldn't take that bet.

Wow, the M35 was damaged? That's a whole new excuse. You could send a M15 replacement but not a replacement M35? You had sent the M35 but not the M12+ as promised? Riiiiiight. Regardless, you made a commitment to sell the M12+ at a discount of "at least 15%", in writing, at the show, before I had made Axpona hotel reservations, bought tickets to attend, etc., only to send me an invoice asking for payment before the show which included sales tax (see below) and offering only a 10% discount. I know someone who ordered the M35 and it took like 6 months before he received it. It seems the M12+ wasn't actually released until 2025, well after the Axpona show you at which you promised to sell me a model M12+ demo so what likely happened was you were simply not able to supply the demo M12+ as promised and wanted me to pay upfront and then make me wait 6 months or a year to receive it. Not impressed.

You told me you had to collect state sales tax. Wisconsin sales tax is a state sales tax, not a federal sales tax dictated by USA tax treaties. Wisconsin requires the buyer to report and pay the Wisconsin state sales tax on out of state purchases unless the seller is registered with the state of Wisconsin to collect Wisconsin state sales tax. Final is not registered with the state of Wisconsin to collect sales tax on out of state purchases. I discussed this at length with the Wisconsin Department of Revenue and forwarded the pertinent information to you. No mention of any sales or other tax on purchases made in the US in any of your many Audiogon ads...hmmmm....By the way, I have purchased several products from Hypex, another company based in the Netherlands. They never asked for sales tax...

Then there was the story from you about how you would be demoing the "all new Final line with upgraded transformers and specs- the plus series" at Axpona and the demos that you had been hawking on Audiogon would be the "all new, upgraded Final plus models" at the old model prices. When I asked the owner for info on these new models he knew nothing about it and had no specs or info on them. Despite promises from both yourself and the owner, specs and info were never sent, and the owner started referring to me to others as "his American Stalker" because I asked for the info a few times.

Buyer beware.

Very happy with my Acoustat 6600's.