2008 - I could speak to an audio engineer at Speaker companies. 2024 - what happened to customer service and speakers.

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

1. Greetings, my name is Gary.
2. Thank you for the wonderful reviews and tests.
3. I have been reading this forum for the past few months now. Learned so much!!!
4. Initially came on here for the reviews and tests of JBL speakers and other brands of speakers tested.
5. Audio and telescopes are related...more later.
6. long time music lover and audio enthusiast - 1987 bought first Pioneer mini hifi in high school. Then it was Techniques, JVC, Sony, Harmon Kardon, Bose 301 and that took me to 2008 when I bough my first audiophile integrated amp and speakers - JBL Northridge Expert Series 4 way towers - before the plant closed.

2024 - today: I thought I love these 4 way ES80 JBLs - they sound great and with the new CD player some recording make my mouth drop like wow!
So I am think maybe I can treat myself to new speakers, its been 15 yrs. So I decide on JBL, however after 15 yrs I thought why don't I call like I did back then and speak to an Engineer, like that wonderful fellow - sorry forgot your name, who spent an hour and 40 minutes on the phone educating me on JBL speaker and made the recommendation for the ES series.

Long story short. Called Harmon luxury in Northridge - not the same company by far, asked to speak to engineer. Was told thats not happening. Person on the phone thought help meant reading specs. I stated that I need someone to explain to me which JBL speakers form your Specialty Audio - 698's, HDI's, Studio Monitors, are on par with mine and which would be a worthwhile improvement sonically? As in can you explain the changes in design or engineering and how does that measure up to the ones I have, I was asking.

I was given a supervisor - nice guy so I thought thats all I am getting. We went through all the stats on the specialty audio line stated above, and his answer was if my ES speakers are still working well, there is nothing he can recommend that would be better except for a model that dipped lower in the base response, that aside I was not getting anything of better quality or sound. The only recommendation he could make is revel saloon 2 which are about 20.000. Way out of my budget. The last thing he confirmed is that the 698's use the same HDI series drivers.

So no one was able to explain what the design differences were , just that on paper I have great speakers but no point in buying what is available . Ok, my JBLs were $1.200 in 2008 and now I am seeing that even north of $5000, or even $8000 I am not getting the same performance. What in the world has happened? I am serious. I am in shock!

Anyone here able to explain this situation. Are are my speaker that good so that to see a worthwhile sonic improvement in sound I have to break the bank or spend 5x at least to get similar specs. What twilight zone am I in if current good audio is so unjustifiably expensive?

I love my new marantz cd60 with new interconnects and speaker cables. My system in my home sounds great. No complaints, I just was wondering how much better sound could I get with current stuff but it seems prices have skyrocketed.

Thank you all who participate. Food, Massage therapy, and Music should all be free as they have a huge affect on life and health is my rant, yet sound is becoming expensive.
Any advise as to what would better by ES80 to make it worth while?

Ohhh One last note: I have an inherited pair of GALE GS401A. speakers form father in law. He said they are great and I should fix them before he passed but no more information. Are they worth fixing over buying other current new?

Cheers.
Gary

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I love these 4 way ES80 JBLs

So no one was able to explain what the design differences were , just that on paper I have great speakers but no point in buying what is available . Ok, my JBLs were $1.200 in 2008 and now I am seeing that even north of $5000, or even $8000 I am not getting the same performance.

I think you love these so much hehe
But being honest in a quick search, the first page was a link to Reddit; a guy asking if the speaker ES80 worth 275usd, then the replay was a guy that found one at 175 in hifishark

https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/1af0m9m

--
The speakers seems to be around 200 to 400 usd/euro

JBL ES80 4 Way Dual 6 inch Floorstanding Speaker (PAIR) (NJL024591) | eBay

Las mejores ofertas para JBL ES80 4 Way Dual 6 inch Floorstanding Speaker (PAIR) (NJL024591) están en eBay â Compara precios y caracterÃsticas de productos nuevos y usados â Muchos artÃculos con envÃo gratis!

www.ebay.es

If you want to stay with JBL offers and want something modern and in a '' higher tier '', you can check:
JBL L100 MK2

L100 Classic MkII - JBL APAC NC

The L100 Classic MkII is the next evolution in the reborn legend that is the JBL Classic Series. This 12-inch (300mm) 3-way bookshelf loudspeaker features upgraded JBL acoustic components to improve the sound quality of this Classic loudspeaker. In addition to performance enhancements to the...

mm.jbl.com

JBL/REVEL F226BE

F226BE | 3-Way Dual 6" Floorstanding Loudspeaker

The Revel F226Be joins our award-winning PerformaBe series as a compact floorstanding loudspeaker. As part of the PerformaBe loudspeaker line, the F226Be includes a 1-inch (25mm) beryllium tweeter driven by massive 85mm dual ceramic magnets.

www.revelspeakers.com

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

I think you love these so much hehe
But being honest in a quick search, the first page was a link to Reddit; a guy asking if the speaker ES80 worth 275usd, then the replay was a guy that found one at 175 in hifishark

https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/1af0m9m

--
The speakers seems to be around 200 to 400 usd/euro

JBL ES80 4 Way Dual 6 inch Floorstanding Speaker (PAIR) (NJL024591) | eBay

Las mejores ofertas para JBL ES80 4 Way Dual 6 inch Floorstanding Speaker (PAIR) (NJL024591) están en eBay â Compara precios y caracterÃsticas de productos nuevos y usados â Muchos artÃculos con envÃo gratis!

www.ebay.es

If you want to stay with JBL offers and want something modern and in a '' higher tier '', you can check:
JBL L100 MK2

L100 Classic MkII - JBL APAC NC

The L100 Classic MkII is the next evolution in the reborn legend that is the JBL Classic Series. This 12-inch (300mm) 3-way bookshelf loudspeaker features upgraded JBL acoustic components to improve the sound quality of this Classic loudspeaker. In addition to performance enhancements to the...

mm.jbl.com

JBL/REVEL F226BE

F226BE | 3-Way Dual 6" Floorstanding Loudspeaker

The Revel F226Be joins our award-winning PerformaBe series as a compact floorstanding loudspeaker. As part of the PerformaBe loudspeaker line, the F226Be includes a 1-inch (25mm) beryllium tweeter driven by massive 85mm dual ceramic magnets.

www.revelspeakers.com

Thank you so much for the reply I will look at the links. Have a great weekend!

 

[kemmler3D]

Greetings Gary, welcome to ASR!

Sounds like you got some very competent speakers back in 2008 - something to be happy about I think.

However, if you're willing to look beyond JBL or discuss it with someone who can read a bit beyond specs on a page, you are sure to find something worth upgrading to. Depends on what your budget is and what your goals are. KEF has been making strides lately when it comes to slim floorstanders, for example.

As for what happened to JBL in the intervening years? Bought by Samsung.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Greetings Gary, welcome to ASR!

Sounds like you got some very competent speakers back in 2008 - something to be happy about I think.

However, if you're willing to look beyond JBL or discuss it with someone who can read a bit beyond specs on a page, you are sure to find something worth upgrading to. Depends on what your budget is and what your goals are. KEF has been making strides lately when it comes to slim floorstanders, for example.

As for what happened to JBL in the intervening years? Bought by Samsung.

Thank you for the reply Kemmler3D! I appreciate it. I will absolutely look into those. Thank you for the heads up on what happened to JBL. Have a great weekend!

 

[dualazmak]

Hello Gary, welcome to ASR!

A suggestion from Japan; how about YAMAHA NS-2000A (or NS-5000, expensive though); I assume it would very much fit for "your" planned new SP introduction in your listening room based on my actual intensive audition to NS-2000A at Tokyo International Audio Show in November 2023. You can expect fairly nice supports and services, if needed, from Yamaha company and/or local dealers/distributors.

Detailed info at YAMAHA Japan site:
- https://jp.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-2000a/index.html

Just for your info, I myself still love and use YAMAHA NS-1000's (launched in 1978) (not NS-1000M!) wonderful cabinet and its three SP drivers (30 cm woofer, 8.8 cm Beryllium dome midrange, 3 cm Beryllium dome tweeter), together with L&R subwoofers, YST-SW1000, and metal horn super-tweeter FOSTEX T925A in my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio system. If you would be interested, please visit here for my latest total setup. I do believe the 8.8 cm Beryllium dome midrange driver JA-0801, covering 500 Hz - 6 kHz, is still one of the very best midrange drivers ever designed/produced.

 

[Mart68]

Ohhh One last note: I have an inherited pair of GALE GS401A. speakers form father in law. He said they are great and I should fix them before he passed but no more information. Are they worth fixing over buying other current new?

Cheers.
Gary

The 'A' version in particular are collector's items now and probably worth restoring or selling to someone who wants to do that.

In terms of sound quality I'd probably take your JBL towers over them, but they were good by the standards of their day.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

The 'A' version in particular are collector's items now and probably worth restoring or selling to someone who wants to do that.

In terms of sound quality I'd probably take your JBL towers over them, but they were good by the standards of their day.

Mart68! Thank you for that valuable information. Glad you responded about the Gales's and your valuable suggestion about JBLs over Gales. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Hello Gary, welcome to ASR!

A suggestion from Japan; how about YAMAHA NS-2000A (or NS-5000, expensive though); I assume it would very much fit for "your" planned new SP introduction in your listening room based on my actual intensive audition to NS-2000A at Tokyo International Audio Show in November 2023. You can expect fairly nice supports and services, if needed, from Yamaha company and/or local dealers/distributors.
View attachment 375188
Detailed info at YAMAHA Japan site:
- https://jp.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-2000a/index.html

Just for your info, I myself still love and use YAMAHA NS-1000's (launched in 1978) (not NS-1000M!) wonderful cabinet and its three SP drivers (30 cm woofer, 8.8 cm Beryllium dome midrange, 3 cm Beryllium dome tweeter), together with L&R subwoofers, YST-SW1000, and metal horn super-tweeter FOSTEX T925A in my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio system. If you would be interested, please visit here for my latest total setup. I do believe the 8.8 cm Beryllium dome midrange driver JA-0801, covering 500 Hz - 6 kHz, is still one of the very best midrange drivers ever designed/produced.

Dualazmak, Thank you, what a fluke, I was looking at the Yamahas last week but had not heard anyones views on them. I clicked on your site, wow lots there, will go through it. Thanks for the links, I am guessing those Yamaha NS-2000A must be of really good quality, I did look at them but glad you mentioned them, These were on my top 3 but I had no idea if they are that good. Thanks!

 

[GXAlan]

JBL ES Series home theater speaker system Page 3

Test Bench By Tom Nousaine Frequency response (at 2 meters) • front left/right 46 Hz to 15 kHz ±7.6 dB • center 83 Hz to 14.8 kHz ±7.8 dB • surround 85 Hz to 17.8 kHz ±6.2 dB • subwoofer 34 Hz to 103 Hz ±1.9 dB

www.soundandvision.com

The ES80’s definitely can be improved upon by going with the JBL HDI3600/3800. The main advances in technology have been improvements in the compression driver where you can actually hit 20 kHz with the audio and have that 20 kHz accurate dispersed across the listening room instead of beaming. Even if you cannot hear 20 kHz, as you work your way down to what you can hear, that helps.

The HDI line woofers probably aren’t that different from what you had in the ES80. Differential drive and low TCR wire are probably the only things that given you that subjective kick or even lower thermal compression over time. The HDI has been going on closeout lately and at closeout prices, it’s a really good option.

The wildcard is that you are happy with your speakers. The colorations, the way they affect the room, etc.

Unless you KNOW exactly what you dislike about the setup, you are adding some variability. Even though science predicts that the vast majority of people want a neutral speaker, we know that B&W speakers aren’t neutral, they don’t market them as neutral, and yet they clearly have a loyal following. It’s not all sighted bias. It’s a bit like food. You can give a person all the reasons, scientifically, why being a vegan is great but at the end of the day, a lot of people are going to say, “yeah but….”

What I would suggest is to do what used to be apocryphal in 2004 but is the smartest thing to do in 2024: buy an AVR with Dirac from Onkyo/Pioneer/Arcam/Denon/Marantz

And keep your ES80’s. The ES80’s were built in an era where waveguides were being introduced to Harman products, which means that they should take to EQ well. If you ever upgrade your speakers, you will have a solid setup to build on top of.

You cannot talk to engineers anymore, but you can sign up for this and see the marketing the sales guys get

harmanuniversity

Your hub for key information on Harman Luxury Brands

harmanuniversity.talentlms.com

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

JBL ES Series home theater speaker system Page 3

Test Bench By Tom Nousaine Frequency response (at 2 meters) • front left/right 46 Hz to 15 kHz ±7.6 dB • center 83 Hz to 14.8 kHz ±7.8 dB • surround 85 Hz to 17.8 kHz ±6.2 dB • subwoofer 34 Hz to 103 Hz ±1.9 dB

www.soundandvision.com

The ES80’s definitely can be improved upon by going with the JBL HDI3600/3800. The main advances in technology have been improvements in the compression driver where you can actually hit 20 kHz with the audio and have that 20 kHz accurate dispersed across the listening room instead of beaming. Even if you cannot hear 20 kHz, as you work your way down to what you can hear, that helps.

The HDI line woofers probably aren’t that different from what you had in the ES80. Differential drive and low TCR wire are probably the only things that given you that subjective kick or even lower thermal compression over time. The HDI has been going on closeout lately and at closeout prices, it’s a really good option.

The wildcard is that you are happy with your speakers. The colorations, the way they affect the room, etc.

Unless you KNOW exactly what you dislike about the setup, you are adding some variability. Even though science predicts that the vast majority of people want a neutral speaker, we know that B&W speakers aren’t neutral, they don’t market them as neutral, and yet they clearly have a loyal following. It’s not all sighted bias. It’s a bit like food. You can give a person all the reasons, scientifically, why being a vegan is great but at the end of the day, a lot of people are going to say, “yeah but….”

What I would suggest is to do what used to be apocryphal in 2004 but is the smartest thing to do in 2024: buy an AVR with Dirac from Onkyo/Pioneer/Arcam/Denon/Marantz

And keep your ES80’s. The ES80’s were built in an era where waveguides were being introduced to Harman products, which means that they should take to EQ well. If you ever upgrade your speakers, you will have a solid setup to build on top of.

You cannot talk to engineers anymore, but you can sign up for this and see the marketing the sales guys get

harmanuniversity

Your hub for key information on Harman Luxury Brands

harmanuniversity.talentlms.com

Well GXAlan, how do I ever thank you? That is exactly what explanation and understanding I was looking for pertaining to the differences from then - ES, to now HDI. The advice for Dirac is great, I have been considering Diarac as well - for 2.0 channel stereo setup, nonetheless; thank you for giving me the explanation about technology differences So I can decide. Have a great weekend. I am so impressed and grateful at everyone here being so helpful and pleasant. Wonderful forum. P.S Thank you for the links - very helpful!

 

[GXAlan]

Well GXAlan, how do I ever thank you? That is exactly what explanation and understanding I was looking for pertaining to the differences from then - ES, to now HDI. The advice for Dirac is great, I have been considering Diarac as well - for 2.0 channel stereo setup, nonetheless; thank you for giving me the explanation about technology differences So I can decide. Have a great weekend. I am so impressed and grateful at everyone here being so helpful and pleasant. Wonderful forum. P.S Thank you for the links - very helpful!

Dollar for dollar, impossible to beat the HDI at the closeout prices. When you buy from Harman, there is a return window.

That said, if it turns out you don’t like the sound of neutrality, having easy to use EQ like Dirac is a good idea. The AVRs are more user friendly than MiniDSP and you get the economies of scale of the AVRs. I would not stress too much about the amplifier quality in them because they are all still very good where the DSP trade off is worth it.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Dollar for dollar, impossible to beat the HDI at the closeout prices. When you buy from Harman, there is a return window.

That said, if it turns out you don’t like the sound of neutrality, having easy to use EQ like Dirac is a good idea. The AVRs are more user friendly than MiniDSP and you get the economies of scale of the AVRs. I would not stress too much about the amplifier quality in them because they are all still very good where the DSP trade off is worth it.

Thank you again Alan! Yes I do like neutral, very much so. Great point.

 

[dualazmak]

Dualazmak, Thank you, what a fluke, I was looking at the Yamahas last week but had not heard anyones views on them. I clicked on your site, wow lots there, will go through it. Thanks for the links, I am guessing those Yamaha NS-2000A must be of really good quality, I did look at them but glad you mentioned them, These were on my top 3 but I had no idea if they are that good. Thanks!

I would like to highly recommend you to have audition session on YAMAHA NS-2000A (34.6 kg, 72.3 lbs !!) at your nearest dealer/distributor/audio-shop who can offer you the session. I assume you will never be disappointed.

I agree with some other people here on this thread that you would be better to keep your JBL E80 even after your new speaker (NS-2000A?) will be installed in your room, at least for a while (several months, I suggest) for intensive comparative listening sessions in your listening room acoustic environments.

The "Search" function within ASR Forum is really nice; you would please "Search" in ASR by wording of "NS-5000", "NS-2000A", "NS-1000", and so on!

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

I would like to highly recommend you to have audition session on YAMAHA NS-2000A (34.6 kg, 72.3 lbs !!) at your nearest dealer/distributor/audio-shop who can offer you the session. I assume you will never be disappointed.

I agree with some other people here on this thread that you would be better to keep your JBL E80 even after your new speaker (NS-2000A?) will be installed in your room, at least for a while (several months, I suggest) for intensive comparative listening sessions in your listening room acoustic environments.

The "Search" function within ASR Forum is really nice; you would please "Search" in ASR by wording of "NS-5000", "NS-2000A", "NS-1000", and so on!

Thanks Jualazmak! Those Yamahas look very very nice! I just need to go hear the NS -2000A. thanks again