Extreme Snake Oil

[Doodski]

Yes, but they were not using it in hifi.
Only in consumer audio there is 'lunacy'.

Yeah, I see your idea there and I agree. They wanted a guarantee and they got that. The consumers want entertainment and a story to follow.

 

[JSmith]

This might be just a "lost in translation" issue from Chinese to English.

I like these on the same page;

https://he.aliexpress.com/item/4000063549917.html

JSmith

 

[TonyJZX]

when i think of quality cable I always think of... <checks notes> "YYTCG"

sounds like an amazon brand

and yes i have a lifetime supply of arista belden

ie. 100m spool of 12 awg

i beleive they are more a profressional, mic wire type company

 

[Digital_Thor]

Best cables for me at the moment, are some lamp-cord that fit well and easy into my DIY build - because it's round - which fit well through a drilled hole in a wooden structure, even though I of course glue it for air-tightness.
Tried to buy some fancy cable, which turned out to be difficult to solder and taking up too much space around my coax, making it annoying to fit.
Further.... I know that it won't do any audible difference anyway

 

[Doodski]

I have worked both in the audio (incl. high-end audio) and rail-way industry and the reasons for picking cables differ immensely.

This is in addition to the original commentary. So to me this commentary is an addendum.>>>
I know what you speak of although railway gear is another thing altogether. I still see $ value in the need for a guarantee for operation without issue because the end user people are vocational tradespeople and they can't be expected to be responsible so you and others like me charge large for the guarantee(s). I bet you are a major expense for the railway corporation. As an example your EE designing materials alone might be ~into the tens of thousands of dollars per day. For the bean counters you are a major expense. But you make the stuff work so they tolerate you. Your selection of high end cables is not of material significance to the company. They want the cheapest so the shareholders are happy.

 

[Audiofire]

Are there any (cable) manufacturers/sellers that try to sell their wares without claiming they do something better or improve the sound ?

What cables do you use in your systems?

I use the power cords that came with my KEF LS60's

audiosciencereview.com

Edit: Thread merged by my request.

 

[solderdude]

This is in addition to the original commentary. So to me this commentary is an addendum.>>>
I know what you speak of although railway gear is another thing altogether. I still see $ value in the need for a guarantee for operation without issue because the end user people are vocational tradespeople and they can't be expected to be responsible so you and others like me charge large for the guarantee(s). I bet you are a major expense for the railway corporation. As an example your EE designing materials alone might be ~into the tens of thousands of dollars per day. For the bean counters you are a major expense. But you make the stuff work so they tolerate you. Your selection of high end cables is not of material significance to the company. They want the cheapest so the shareholders are happy.

Whenever I need(ed) to specify a cable I look for availability, required specs and price, make a recommendation and purchasing dept. does the rest.

Whenever someone asks me to recommend an audio cable I look for availability, required specs and price, make recommendation(s) and the buyer decides.

Whenever an audiophile requires a cable he reads/watches reviews and reads up on 'the audio qualities' he finds important [insert all kinds of audiophool nomenclature] and then usually buys something expensive, well reviewed and with looks/connectors he/she/whatever likes the most and falls withing the allocated budget or just above it.

Whenever an ASR member requires a cable he looks for something suited, affordable with sturdy connectors.
As Amir only seems to test some expensive cables ASR members will likely buy something more expensive

 

[pma]

My choice for single ended RCA link cable is RG59. Low shield impedance, very good EMI immunity. Low price 2 EUR/m.

 

[Doodski]

Whenever I need(ed) to specify a cable I look for availability, required specs and price, make a recommendation and purchasing dept. does the rest.

Whenever someone asks me to recommend an audio cable I look for availability, required specs and price, make recommendation(s) and the buyer decides.

Whenever an audiophile requires a cable he reads/watches reviews and reads up on 'the audio qualities' he finds important [insert all kinds of audiophool nomenclature] and then usually buys something expensive, well reviewed and with looks/connectors he/she/whatever likes the most and falls withing the allocated budget or just above it.

Whenever an ASR member requires a cable he looks for something suited, affordable with sturdy connectors.
As Amir only seems to test some expensive cables ASR members will likely buy something more expensive

Do you have any $ idea what the expense to the company is for the materials that you daily consume as you design the railway's electronics stuff?
I have exceeded a average daily rate of minimum ~CDN $750 / day for hardware materials related to electronic over hydraulic system when manufacturing, "Heavy equipment snowplows."
Your responsibilities are much much more comprehensive so it would be reasonable to think that everything is much bigger, more often and more important.
I doubt that you are loaded down with costs/estimations and I think you have freedom of operation so you may concentrate on your engineering.
Your time is simply too valuable.
I think you and other engineering experts seek technical supports that can provide more economical services/materials that are not as expensive as your engineering services are.
So I am in doubt of your claims.
If I am being aggressive I apologize in advance but I feel confident.

 

[solderdude]

My choice for single ended RCA link cable is RG59. Low shield impedance, very good EMI immunity. Low price 2 EUR/m.

Yep excellent cable but... one would have to solder on their own connectors so is DIY only or it has the wrong connectors on it .
Most people just prefer to buy something ready made that is easily available and meets their 'requirements'

Do you have any $ idea what the expense to the company is for the materials that you daily consume as you design the railway's electronics stuff?

Yep, it is peanuts in comparison with the costs of the system(s) it is used in and the costs of installing said cables (if in the field).
Audiophool cables cost way more than good industrial cables that can withstand harsh conditions.

 

[Doodski]

Audiophool cables cost way more than good industrial cables that can withstand harsh conditions.

OK... sigh* I don't think the disparity is as bad as you say.
When where you last employed in consumer audio AV electronics?
As per harsh conditions I think heavy duty ship rated/marine rated cable versus heavy duty cable is not a comparison and is hype.
Marine cable that is the recent fad is easily cut by low force friction.

 

[solderdude]

Marine cables have different properties than industrial, automotive, chemical, railway, domestic and 'audio' cables (interlink, headphone, speaker, mains).
Different properties and different pricing.

Audiophool can be k$/meter for just 2 or 3 conductors.

Anyway... this thread is about the audio advertisements of (generally cheaply produced but expensively sold) simple cables.

 

[ZolaIII]

Actually it's optimal to buy thick speaker cable in AWG 12 or 4 mm and cooper not aluminium clothed copper. You buy OFC ones as still acceptable option regarding price for their oxidation properties not super conductivity and mambo jumbo. Same way you buy TP-E jacket ones for durability.

 

[xaviescacs]

One has to admit that this game of finding the less expensive illusory tweak that maximizes profits, appearance of quality and exclusivity to outmaneuver competitors looks somehow fun.

 

[mhardy6647]

I could be wrong, but it looks like it's more silly than just upscaling. The idea is to add ultrasonic harmonics via some "expert approved" algorithm in order to make the music "more emotional"

In this day and age, I'd think that the language might be altered to expert curated algorithm.

 

[Count Arthur]

Are there any (cable) manufacturers/sellers that try to sell their wares without claiming they do something better or improve the sound ?

I've never seen any claims about the sonics of cables at any of the pro audio orientated places I've bought cables from:

Audio Cables - Custom Lynx

custom-lynx.co.uk

Cables and Leads - Studiospares

Explore a variety of cables and leads for audio, video, and data transmission needs. Find reliable connectivity solutions for your equipment.

www.studiospares.com

Designacable - Custom cables for audio, video, data and power

Custom Audio Video Data & Power Cables. Made by skilled technicians using the best components the world has to offer. Belden, Van Damme, Mogami, Sommer, Neutrik, Lemo........

www.designacable.com

 

[srkbear]

Obviously copper cable sounds warmer and optic cable more transparent....

And silver sounds brighter—of course it does because it just looks brighter. Shiny. They sound shinier. But don’t get those gimmicky “silver tipped copper” cables—they’re drenched in veils…

 

[solderdude]

I've never seen any claims about the sonics of cables at any of the pro audio orientated places I've bought cables from:

Audio Cables - Custom Lynx

custom-lynx.co.uk

Cables and Leads - Studiospares

Explore a variety of cables and leads for audio, video, and data transmission needs. Find reliable connectivity solutions for your equipment.

www.studiospares.com

Designacable - Custom cables for audio, video, data and power

Custom Audio Video Data & Power Cables. Made by skilled technicians using the best components the world has to offer. Belden, Van Damme, Mogami, Sommer, Neutrik, Lemo........

www.designacable.com

Yep, the 'audio quality' thing is mostly for audio consumers (the gullible ones and audiophools). That's where most of the money is.
Pro cable sellers usually talk about reliability, and other practical properties.

 

[DesertRatt]

Ok, I have for a few years now had Shunyata as the "King" of the snake oil sellers. They represent the worst of the worst. They have it all. Marketing material that is pure rubbish and techno nonsense by the bucket full. I always wish someone with deep pockets could sue them out of existence. Then I foolishly looked at some Audio rags, I mean mags yesterday and saw an ad for Synergistic Speaker Wire I think it was. $28,000 for an 8 foot length. I now have put them at the top tier with Shunyata as both companies need to be hounded out of business. They represent the worst of the audio world. I know I should not be surprised, but I still am at the overwhelming amount of rip off and scam artists that are dominant in the audio industry. Just thought I would mention it today.
Our "hobby" is dominated by low life's, criminals and scammers of the highest order. They are true professionals at their trade.

I disagree. We must get the rich to spend their money. If they don't we're all screwed. A $40k Diamond is just a pebble from the ground. It's actual value is a few dollars. But it's retail value is held up by hoarding the supply. Then people with big money have to pay up to get the prestige! We have to keep the money MOVING else the poor will get poorer.

It's a GOOD thing that people can get others to spend $50k for a wire or a 2W amplifier, or a magic trestle to put under a speaker wire! This helps spread the money, and increase the velocity of money flow. It different hurt me one iota for some rich dude to get duped out of his money on nonsense! Economic disaster ensues when the rich hoard their money!

 

[Bruce Morgen]

My choice for single ended RCA link cable is RG59. Low shield impedance, very good EMI immunity. Low price 2 EUR/m.

I use coax myself -- but I prefer this stuff, which is much thinner and thus more flexible than RG59 -- for electric guitar connections, where signal levels are low, impedance is high, and shunt capacitance is the major SQ consideration. Center conductor DCR is relatively high due to its copper-plated steel wire, but that's a non-issue in that application: Belden 8218

As for line level RCA "interconnects," in my experience -- as confirmed by Amir's measurements of the cheap, off-the-rack, retail-packaged cable I sent him -- pretty much anything will do, so I don't sweat that at all and have used "whatever" with absolutely no SQ or reliability issues pretty much "forever."