Dutch 8C or ATC SCM50 with Trinnov ST2

[CivilizationDiscontents]

Hi ASR Members, I'm currently struggling with my next big buying decision. My question is: how is 8C's internal design to overcome room acoustics compared to Trinnov ST2 plus a decent studio monitor, like Mesanovic RTM10, Genelecs 8361, ATC SCM50? My Room is basically untreated and I'm not gonna put traps or diffusers in it, that's why I'm adding the Trinnov instead of just buying monitors alone.

I know 8C is more unique in its hardware design that Trinnov cannot compensate but I really love ATC's midrange dome and Mesanovic's Ribbon tweeter.

So it's a battle like Room Compatibility versus the "sound" of Special Driver (I know technically drivers with different builds should sound the same, but based on my experience they DO have a sound in some aspect).

What do you guys think? Thank you to everyone. I learned a great deal from all of the great folks in the forum.

 

[CivilizationDiscontents]

I'm also going to listen to all of them and Trinnov ST2 in Vintage King's LA Showroom. Vintage King team is really friendly and flexible. Thumbs up for them.

I think to the end it really depends on where the Trinnov technology or 8C is better in terms of Room Correction.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I think to the end it really depends on where the Trinnov technology or 8C is better in terms of Room Correction.

Does the 8C do 'room correction'? I didn't think so, but rather it was more about a design that made them less affected by the room they were placed in, plus some boundary proximity type of adjustments?

The Kii 3 would seem a similar product worth considering if you haven't already?

 

[Frgirard]

I'm also going to listen to all of them and Trinnov ST2 in Vintage King's LA Showroom. Vintage King team is really friendly and flexible. Thumbs up for them.

I think to the end it really depends on where the Trinnov technology or 8C is better in terms of Room Correction.

The Dutch , the Trinnov ST2 can not do something for a high decay - >400 ms - in the bass frequencies.
The most important part of the sound reproduction in the bass frequencies.
The Dutch, the Trinnov ST2 can not do something for a high decay - > 200 ms - above the bass frequencies.
A high decay = a reproduction without detail.
My 0.0002 Btc

 

[Purité Audio]

If you go for the ATCs consider adding a sub.
Keith

 

[Ultrasonic]

The Dutch , the Trinnov ST2 can not do something for a high decay - >400 ms - in the bass frequencies.
The most important part of the sound reproduction in the bass frequencies.
The Dutch, the Trinnov ST2 can not do something for a high decay - > 200 ms - above the bass frequencies.
A high decay = a reproduction without detail.
My 0.0002 Btc

What can the 8C do to address decay time issues that the Trinnov can't?

 

[Purité Audio]

Does the 8C do 'room correction'? I didn't think so, but rather it was more about a design that made them less affected by the room they were placed in, plus some boundary proximity type of adjustments?

The Kii 3 would seem a similar product worth considering if you haven't already?

The 8Cs have 24 in built peq filters plus tone controls, as well as cardioid/boundary and delay.
Keith

 

[Ultrasonic]

Edit: Missed what you were replying there first Keith. I couldn't see mention of PEQ filters in the 8C manual when I had a quick look earlier but I must have missed it .

 

[DSJR]

..And some people (not here) claim loudspeaker tech hasn't moved on since the Spendor BC1 originally designed in 1969!!!

To the OP, I envy you. Hope you have a very interesting listening journey and once you've made your purchase decision, the speakers can be allowed to disappear, just letting the music through

 

[o7_brother]

Having the D&D 8c and the ATC SCM50 in the same conversation is odd indeed.

 

[Mnyb]

Why not the 8c and the trinov ? They actually address different things .

No room eq ever ,can fix bad directivity , the kind of acoustic shortcomings of most speakers have that the 8c aspire to do correct ( and possibly do ) .

I don’t think speaker mfg can just shove drivers in a box . And then it all can be fixed by a button in you digital pre pro.
Some speakers due to thier inherent directivity issues don’t work very well with eq .
But speaker like the 8c , Kef , Genelecs and Revel are very eq able so to speak .Many speakers sounds very different on and of axis so if you eq for one of them it can never be right ?

Hence why many room eq systems primarily operates in the bass , as to auto eq the whole bandwidth would be a very unpredictable affair .

If I got this rigth it’s even so that a good speaker ( directivity controlled ) demands less of room treatment to

 

[JustJones]

The new 2.0 firmware in the 8c doesn't work with REW so you would need a way to take measurements in order to set the filters. This is suppose to be fixed in later firmware updates. You can still set the boundaries though. Genelec has their own system, GLM for calibration.

 

[CivilizationDiscontents]

@Purité Audio Keith I think you represent both 8C and RTM10, right? What do you think of them? With proper EQ help from Trinnov, do you think RTM10 is at the same level as 8C? I really love the sound of ribbon tweeter as I hear some of that before. Really smooth like Berillyum tweeters from Focal but unfatiguing. But I don't know if it's comparable to 8C's cardioid design and its boundary coupling. It's really sad you guys don't have a business in the US.

 

[CivilizationDiscontents]

I'm ruling out ATC and PSI for now. Their analog marketing and rejection of DSP (or outdated technology) cannot convince me. And they are exceptionally large, which may affect room acoustics as well.
I'm adding Focal Trio 11 Be, Barefoot MM26, and Unity Audio Boulder to the "Traditional Speaker Plus Trinnov" camp alongside Mesanovic RTM10, according to their reviews in Sound on Sound.
I'm certainly going to listen to basically all of them side by side but Vintage King's showroom is well treated and it's hard to imagine how they will actually sound in my living room. So, any ideas or thoughts are appreciated.
These days, if you have over 10K budget, I think you will ultimately have the same question/problem as I'm when choosing the most cutting-edge and high-end speakers if you don't want to be ripped by the other ultra-high-end passive speakers.

 

[Purité Audio]

The new 2.0 firmware in the 8c doesn't work with REW so you would need a way to take measurements in order to set the filters. This is suppose to be fixed in later firmware updates. You can still set the boundaries though. Genelec has their own system, GLM for calibration.

You always need REW or some form of measurement software to actually measure the room/speaker interaction REW/8C integration did and will allow you to send those filters created by REW directly to the 8Cs, at the moment you have to input the filter values manually.
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

@Purité Audio Keith I think you represent both 8C and RTM10, right? What do you think of them? With proper EQ help from Trinnov, do you think RTM10 is at the same level as 8C? I really love the sound of ribbon tweeter as I hear some of that before. Really smooth like Berillyum tweeters from Focal but unfatiguing. But I don't know if it's comparable to 8C's cardioid design and its boundary coupling. It's really sad you guys don't have a business in the US.

They are both really good, I don’t believe you need to spend so much just use ROON or an RME ADi for PEQ
Keith

 

[CivilizationDiscontents]

They are both really good, I don’t believe you need to spend so much just use ROON or an RME ADi for PEQ
Keith

Thank you for your response, Keith. I believe RTM10 has more flexibility compared to other active monitors like Focal Trio 11 or Barefoot MM26, due to its DSP technology and other designs. But not as flexible as 8C, I think? Really tough choice. I really need to listen to them to find out.

 

[JustJones]

I guess Vintage King doesn't have the Dutch and Dutch on hand? I know they are a dealer, I bought Dutch and Dutch stands from them.

 

[CivilizationDiscontents]

They are both really good, I don’t believe you need to spend so much just use ROON or an RME ADi for PEQ
Keith

Hi Keith. Thank you again for your response. My final question is how do you think of the midrange vocals in RTM10 and 8C? Is anyone more superior than another? I value midrange a lot because I mostly listen to pop music. Thank you again!

 

[dfuller]

I'm ruling out ATC and PSI for now. Their analog marketing and rejection of DSP (or outdated technology) cannot convince me. And they are exceptionally large, which may affect room acoustics as well.
I'm adding Focal Trio 11 Be, Barefoot MM26, and Unity Audio Boulder to the "Traditional Speaker Plus Trinnov" camp alongside Mesanovic RTM10, according to their reviews in Sound on Sound.
I'm certainly going to listen to basically all of them side by side but Vintage King's showroom is well treated and it's hard to imagine how they will actually sound in my living room. So, any ideas or thoughts are appreciated.
These days, if you have over 10K budget, I think you will ultimately have the same question/problem as I'm when choosing the most cutting-edge and high-end speakers if you don't want to be ripped by the other ultra-high-end passive speakers.

I'd skip the MM26.