Driver death rates remain high among small cars

[Willem]

Yes my country is small, but we drive all over Europe, and the German Autobahn is an ecosystem that requires a very well handling car. My 2 litre French car handles beautifully in the mountains, and has no difficulty crossing the Alps. As for urbanization rate, almost no country in the world is more urbanized than we are. But you are quite right that the driving environment is very different. Having driven a lot in both the US and Europe, I guess the biggest difference is on the one hand the lower speeds and and wider roads in the US, and on the other hand the terrible road surfaces in many parts of the US. We experienced the same two years ago when we rented a small Ford Fiesta on our holiday in Albania. The car handled very well (much better than the small Kia that we rented two weeks later), but it was not properly adapted to the atrocious road surfaces. Next time we will get a small SUV there. Wonderful country to vist, by the way.

 

[SIY]

It would be interesting to see data on the fatalities imposed on the other car involved in the accident, or, in the European conditions, also death rates among cyclists and pedestrians. That might well change the picture: big cars may be safe for their drivers, but are lethal weapons - at least that would be my hypothesis.

It might skew differently than expected since the US has more large vehicles and generally slower highway speeds, but far fewer bicyclists.

Ride a bike here and the big danger isn't trucks, it's dying of sunstroke. (edit: 45°C here today)

 

[SIY]

Yes my country is small, but we drive all over Europe, and the German Autobahn is an ecosystem that requires a very well handling car. My 2 litre French car handles beautifully in the mountains, and has no difficulty crossing the Alps. As for urbanization rate, almost no country in the world is more urbanized than we are. But you are quite right that the driving environment is very different. Having driven a lot in both the US and Europe, I guess the biggest difference is on the one hand the lower speeds and and wider roads in the US, and on the other hand the terrible road surfaces in many parts of the US. We experienced the same two years ago when we rented a small Ford Fiesta on our holiday in Albania. The car handled very well (much better than the small Kia that we rented two weeks later), but it was not properly adapted to the atrocious road surfaces. Next time we will get a small SUV there. Wonderful country to vist, by the way.

I remember when I first moved to Europe (this was pre-EU) and took a drive from where I lived (Luxembourg) to France- amazing how the road quality suddenly changed when I crossed that border!

 

[Ron Texas]

It would be interesting to see data on the fatalities imposed on the other car involved in the accident, or, in the European conditions, also death rates among cyclists and pedestrians. That might well change the picture: big cars may be safe for their drivers, but are lethal weapons - at least that would be my hypothesis.

My hypothesis is if a pedestrian or cyclist gets hit by a small car or a pickup moving at 30 MPH they die either way. For small car vs pickup crashes occupants of the small car come out worse. However, that does not make the larger vehicle a lethal weapon. Rather, the small car is not as safe as the study indicates.

 

[BDWoody]

For me, main car use is long distance driving. For that, comfort and handling at higher speeds are important,

For me, comfort, room and visibility would top the list. Between the much larger mirrors and elevated position, there isn't much I can't see behind or in front of me.

I once drove a full size Dodge sedan, so I know about the handling of traditional US cars.

That's a pretty broad extrapolation professor...

There are enough very safe and beautifully handling smallish European cars on our market. Their only safety risk is being hit by a monster truck.

Really? That's amazing...

 

[Wombat]

FWIW:

https://theconversation.com/ive-always-wondered-are-suvs-and-4wds-safer-than-other-cars-98559

 

[boXem]

I remember when I first moved to Europe (this was pre-EU) and took a drive from where I lived (Luxembourg) to France- amazing how the road quality suddenly changed when I crossed that border!

Cool, an ex neighbor! Where were you living?
Out of curiosity, which side was the bad side for road state? Because things changed a lot since EU.

 

[SIY]

Cool, an ex neighbor! Where were you living?
Out of curiosity, which side was the bad side for road state? Because things changed a lot since EU.

I was in Echternach, right on the German border. Lux roads were smooth and beautiful. The French side... not so much. I used to drive to Lyon and the northern Rhone Valley regularly and quickly learned to hate the tunnels.

 

[boXem]

I was in Echternach, right on the German border. Lux roads were smooth and beautiful. The French side... not so much. I used to drive to Lyon and the northern Rhone Valley regularly and quickly learned to hate the tunnels.

It's a beautiful area. Seems things didn't change that much since EU, at least in the region. Rhone Valley has improved a lot, just to be avoided during summer transhumance between north EU and south EU.

 

[Neddy]

Amazing...3 pages and no one has yet to point out some of the 'faults' of these studies - namely that well designed small cars are more nimble, stop faster, and more stable - and so simply avoid many more collisions than lumbering SUVs/PUs?

If you don't collide in the first place, then the stats make little difference.

Combine that with good defensive (w/ a bit of offense) driving techniques, and odds even up a lot.

Granted, this presumes a bit of driver ability and maybe some training/practice... but in all the years I owned 'tiny' cars (MGB, TR4, 914, Ferd Fiesta's, etc) I simply was able to drive/brake around quite a few likely fatal incidents (including one where an oncoming car lost it's front spindle at speed and headed right for me!), not to mention deer/moose interactions.

In early winter each year, I used to pick nice heavy snowy days (heavy enough that traffic was very light) to go out and practice endless hand brake 180s, spiraling down the highway without stopping. Was a great way to get my 'snow chops' back every year.
Local cops didn't like it much, but once I got a judge to agree with me that I'd been being safe and prudent...and dismissed the case.

PS. I drive a fairly heavy mid-sized P/U today, and still try to practice 'at the edge'/avoidance maneuvers each early winter (helped save me from at least one crunch with a spinning out car earlier this year, even) - but boy, once that thing gets going, it ain't gonna stop until hits something or runs out of momentum (energy).
I do miss Light and Nimble.

 

[maverickronin]

It's ironic that car threads on ASR always turn into train wrecks.

 

[LTig]

My hypothesis is if a pedestrian or cyclist gets hit by a small car or a pickup moving at 30 MPH they die either way.

Nope. With a small car the pedestrian or cyclyst is thrown onto the hud and slides over the screen and roof, so the G-force is much lower than getting hit in the middle of the body as with a big SUV.

My small car (18 year old Honda Jazz, that's a 'Fit' outside Europe) has a 5-star rating for crash safety of pedestrians, due to the construction (softness) of the hud. I don't think any monstertruck or big SUV will ever get such a rating.

 

[LTig]

I was in Echternach, right on the German border. Lux roads were smooth and beautiful. The French side... not so much. I used to drive to Lyon and the northern Rhone Valley regularly and quickly learned to hate the tunnels.

The road conditions in France vary a lot, from super smooth motorways to very narrow and bumpy country roads. No wonder french cars have good suspension.

Actually, I like those narrow country roads when traveling, even if 100 km on those take longer than 300 km on the motor way.

 

[LTig]

Flat small countries have different needs than enormous, urbanized countries with terrains ranging from desert to mountains to ocean shores and much newer cities, so people make different choices. Which is totally cool.

Yep. You'll see a lot of Subaru cars in switzerland, due to having 4WD. I had a tiny Subaru microbus before I got the current Honda Jazz ('Fit' outside Europe).

However the only time I ever needed the Subarus 4WD was to get out of a swampy piece of ground on a camp site in Bergen/Norway. And boy have I driven rough roads in Norway and Sweden with both cars, and never got stuck. Even during a vacation in Iceland some 20 years ago I rented a Nissan Micra with 2WD (smallest possible car but cheapest). I was not allowed to enter the inland tracks (F-roads) but there were very rough roads in the west fjords (Latrabjarg) were you couldn't go faster than 30 km/h. Still I didn't get stuck.

So in my view at least for western and northern Europe you don't need a 4WD when driving on public roads. This may not be true for farmers, forest workers and other poeple who need to drive tracks and roads closed to the public. Those are small minority though.

 

[SIY]

The road conditions in France vary a lot, from super smooth motorways to very narrow and bumpy country roads. No wonder french cars have good suspension.

Actually, I like those narrow country roads when traveling, even if 100 km on those take longer than 300 km on the motor way.

Yeah, in my Rhone tours, I’d take RN86 rather than A7. That allowed me to discover things like the big plaster cow in Chavanay and a delightful truck stop in Cornas.

 

[Ron Texas]

@LTig you must drive an old car so you can afford fancy hifi gear. I expect the cost of owning a car or light truck in the US is way below what it is in France.

 

[SIY]

@LTig you must drive an old car so you can afford fancy hifi gear. I expect the cost of owning a car or light truck in the US is way below what it is in France.

I drive an old car because it works, and I don’t see the point of spending money on a new one as long as this is true.

 

[Wes]

a big, jacked up pickup truck is compensation, just as phaat audiophile cables are

 

[Willem]

Beyond all this: SUVs are fugly. Pininfarina would never have designed one.

 

[Blumlein 88]

a big, jacked up pickup truck is compensation, just as phaat audiophile cables are

Same thing people said about sports cars, hot rods and exotics or anything they don't like. Say I as someone liking sports cars and hating jacked up trucks.