Does Speaker Size Determine The Sound?

[Cybertech119]

Hi guys, I’m planing to change my home theater speakers for my amplifier as they are getting old, so I got to the Audio store.
I saw a small size speakers. Also, a big size speakers.
The seller however recommend the smaller size speakers over the big size. He said the smaller size sound better than the big size.

I’m still confused. How on earth can a small speaker sound better than big speakers?

 

[Cybertech119]

How possible is this?

 

[abdo123]

it's not about the size but how you use it.

 

[DanielT]

There are good and bad speakers, big and small.

In general, small speakers can not play bass as well as larger ones (especially at higher volumes).But there are big speakers that have bad bass, a lot of bass maybe but bad. So it depends.
Small speakers + subwoofer can be a solution.

Thread that addresses what you are thinking about:

Your loudspeakers are too small!

I'm convinced my speakers, your speakers and 98% of enthusiasts speakers are too small. Too small not only to provide enough headroom for uncompressed loud dynamic peaks, but too small (and inefficient) to provide micro-dynamics at lower volumes. Increasing amplifier wattage does not solve this...

audiosciencereview.com

Suitable sensitivity speakers vs your amp can be counted on here:

How much power does an amplifier need with this type of range of dynamic music

Feel free to use this calculator. Add sensitivity to the speaker and then tell which effect you have chosen and why. Weigh in that you want some headroom. http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/REAP.html You can select music from this list. Or something else, but in that case tell us how you...

audiosciencereview.com

Here you can search speakers that have been tested:

Speaker Review and Measurement Index

Master database of speaker review and measurements

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Tom C]

I’ll add

Link

 

[Cybertech119]

Thanks. It means if I’m going for the small speakers, I will need to consider buying a subwoofer to give bass.

 

[abdo123]

Thanks. It means if I’m going for the small speakers, I will need to consider buying a subwoofer to give bass.

Pick the speaker that sound best to you. Give it a run in your own room for a few days as well.

 

[Tom C]

Speaking just for myself, a typical small bookshelf can be excellent if you’ll be seated close to the speakers. The cost is usually lower, and they are easier to position, especially if you’re working with a tight space. Another advantage is that it’s easier to adjust placement side to side, and vertically up and down, so the acoustic center of the speaker fires directly at your ear. Not everyone likes that, but it’s usually the way I prefer.
For multiple listeners at some distance, which is usually the case for home theater, I prefer a larger format driver for the LCR woofers, and would use at least one subwoofer, with any tower that I’m likely to buy.
The first time I took a stab at putting together a home theater system, I travelled two hours to the nearest city (Orlando, FL), went into the Best Buy at an upscale shopping mall (Millenia), and asked for the best set up they had. I walked out with a mid-level Marantz AVR and Bowers & Wilkins bookshelves with sub. The sound quality was mediocre and disappointing, I think mostly because of the speakers, and I had spent more than I ever had before on a system. The takeaway is that if you just go with what the local dealer has to sell you, you may not get the best result. There is much to learn on this forum, and, while it’s a bit of work for you, if you educate yourself, you’ll be better equipped to find a dealer who will sell you what you want, rather than just what s/he has to sell.

 

[MaxRockbin]

This whole Big vs Small thing has been batted around a lot, but there IS some actual data. I was curious so I just looked up reviews on ASR for Revel speakers in the same product series - since there are more reviews for Revel than anything else, I think. The closest to a Big/Little shootout is probably the F35 vs the M16. Not perfect because the F35 uses 5" drivers vs 6.5 in the M16.

In that one case, it looks like the F35 is flatter - though that could just be a quirk of the designs. They both have good dispersion horizontally and not good vertically.

Surprisingly, they seem to play down to similar low frequencies with about a 5dB drop off though the small M16 actually goes a bit lower - to about 50hz vs 60hz for the F35 - roughly - just eyeballing the graphs.

SO - you're probably going to want a sub for either of these.

I think the big question is, can the big speakers play louder without distortion. This is a weak spot for the ASR reviews. You have to look at the 86 and 96hz harmonic distortion graphs and make a guess. IF the reviews even have both graphs. It would be nice if there was a simple ranking like done for SINAD for amps that puts all the measured speakers on a scale for how loud they can probably play with low distortion. That would be much easier and I think more useful than the distortion graphs.

That said, it looks like the M16 has lower low frequency distortion than the bigger floorstander.

It would be nice if someone wants to find reviews of an even more comparable standmount/floorstander pair. If there's any conclusion from this, it seems like you'd read in that a bigger bass driver matters more than speaker size (or number of drivers). That kinda makes sense since a 6.5" should have more area than two 5" speakers. So maybe you could conclude that you shouldn't measure height, but driver area?

 

[Tom C]

Right, yes, driver area seems like it would be a bigger factor than baffle size, or cabinet volume, although those should contribute also. Compare JBL 705P to JBL 708P. Same compression driver tweeter in both, same size amps in both. Only differences are woofer size, size of the tweeter horn, and cabinet volume. According to JBL spec sheet, 708P max SPL is like 6db higher, even though amps are the same.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks. It means if I’m going for the small speakers, I will need to consider buying a subwoofer to give bass.

Perhaps. In addition, as pointed out by others. There are good smaller ones with good bass. But it is impossible to get away from the word small. This is how speakers work. BUT we humans work in different ways. Different taste. If you live in a house, far to neighbors, can play loud and do it with. You love listening to hard bass pumping techno music in a large listening room. Well that probably speaks for itself what applies then. You had not even thought of small speakers then. But if you live in an apartment, you do not usually play so loud, sensitive neighbors, smaller listening rooms, you do not play such bass-pumping music. You had not even thought of large speakers then.

 

[tvrgeek]

Thanks. It means if I’m going for the small speakers, I will need to consider buying a subwoofer to give bass.

For a HT, you would want a sub as movies have special effects that reach way down. For music, many get by with roll-off in the 50 Hz range and no sub. I run a sub. If as was mentioned, your living environment allows it. If not in a single family house, please do not buy a sub.

The deeper you go, the louder you go, you have to move progressively more air. You do that with larger diameter cone, more of them, or longer excursion.

Floor stander vs stand? A floor stander has more internal volume, so a properly selected driver that can be tuned to that space will go lower in the same floor space as a monitor sitting on a stand. If you are running a sub, you are probablly crossing over higher and it does not mater. Hence, the market is full of 6 inch 2-ways that by them selves are delightful for music, but with a sub added, fine for HT.

 

[DanielT]

This whole Big vs Small thing has been batted around a lot, but there IS some actual data. I was curious so I just looked up reviews on ASR for Revel speakers in the same product series - since there are more reviews for Revel than anything else, I think. The closest to a Big/Little shootout is probably the F35 vs the M16. Not perfect because the F35 uses 5" drivers vs 6.5 in the M16.

In that one case, it looks like the F35 is flatter - though that could just be a quirk of the designs. They both have good dispersion horizontally and not good vertically.

Surprisingly, they seem to play down to similar low frequencies with about a 5dB drop off though the small M16 actually goes a bit lower - to about 50hz vs 60hz for the F35 - roughly - just eyeballing the graphs.

SO - you're probably going to want a sub for either of these.

I think the big question is, can the big speakers play louder without distortion. This is a weak spot for the ASR reviews. You have to look at the 86 and 96hz harmonic distortion graphs and make a guess. IF the reviews even have both graphs. It would be nice if there was a simple ranking like done for SINAD for amps that puts all the measured speakers on a scale for how loud they can probably play with low distortion. That would be much easier and I think more useful than the distortion graphs.

That said, it looks like the M16 has lower low frequency distortion than the bigger floorstander.

It would be nice if someone wants to find reviews of an even more comparable standmount/floorstander pair. If there's any conclusion from this, it seems like you'd read in that a bigger bass driver matters more than speaker size (or number of drivers). That kinda makes sense since a 6.5" should have more area than two 5" speakers. So maybe you could conclude that you shouldn't measure height, but driver area?

Given everything else being equal, distortion, FR then it is surface plus x-max = ability to pump air that applies to sub bass. One big driver or several small ones do not matter. It's just a mathematical exercise.

Maybe it was a bit of an obvious remark I made earlier that there are good and bad speakers, big and small, but that's it. There has been a positive development of speaker elements. Nowadays, there are more with lower distortion. Such a 6.5" with a long stroke (large x -max) and high power resistance. Then it can be good bass (up to a certain volume, quite high volyme, especially if you have a smaller listening room).

Large speakers that are poorly constructed, not stable enough, bad/mediocre drivers. Of course it will be shit then.
I am thinking of the type of speakers that were seen in the past (they may still exist today) on discount chains. Speakers with 12-15 "bass drivers. Paper-thin walls. Cheap. More to attract young people. They who bought them got bass, no good bass but a lot of (bad) sound (over the whole register). It was a kind of Hades.

 

[DVDdoug]

I’m still confused. How on earth can a small speaker sound better than big speakers??.

It might be a better design with better drivers.

Woofer size (or total piston area with multiple woofers) and cabinet size are important factors for bass. A bigger speaker doesn't necessarily have better-deeper bass than a smaller one, but at some point you do run into "physics" and a 6-inch woofer is never going to fill a room with bass you can feel in your body.

The "trend" toward small speakers is because of home theater where most people don't want 5 or 7 (or more) large speakers. And even with large speakers, home theater needs a subwoofer for the "point one" LFE channel.

 

[Robin L]

This whole Big vs Small thing has been batted around a lot, but there IS some actual data. I was curious so I just looked up reviews on ASR for Revel speakers in the same product series - since there are more reviews for Revel than anything else, I think. The closest to a Big/Little shootout is probably the F35 vs the M16. Not perfect because the F35 uses 5" drivers vs 6.5 in the M16.

In that one case, it looks like the F35 is flatter - though that could just be a quirk of the designs. They both have good dispersion horizontally and not good vertically.

Surprisingly, they seem to play down to similar low frequencies with about a 5dB drop off though the small M16 actually goes a bit lower - to about 50hz vs 60hz for the F35 - roughly - just eyeballing the graphs.

SO - you're probably going to want a sub for either of these.

I think the big question is, can the big speakers play louder without distortion. This is a weak spot for the ASR reviews. You have to look at the 86 and 96hz harmonic distortion graphs and make a guess. IF the reviews even have both graphs. It would be nice if there was a simple ranking like done for SINAD for amps that puts all the measured speakers on a scale for how loud they can probably play with low distortion. That would be much easier and I think more useful than the distortion graphs.

That said, it looks like the M16 has lower low frequency distortion than the bigger floorstander.

It would be nice if someone wants to find reviews of an even more comparable standmount/floorstander pair. If there's any conclusion from this, it seems like you'd read in that a bigger bass driver matters more than speaker size (or number of drivers). That kinda makes sense since a 6.5" should have more area than two 5" speakers. So maybe you could conclude that you shouldn't measure height, but driver area?

Two 5" drivers have about 40 square inches of surface, 1 6.5" driver has about 33 inches.

 

[DanielT]

One thing you should watch out for if any Hifi Salesman/Trader claims that there is a 100% correlation between price and performance. The statement, The more expensive the better. It does not exist in HiFi. You are now in HiFi The Twilight Zone.

Check this out:

Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wilson Audio TuneTot stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs around US $10,000 (varies due to color). I am not a fan of the way the front looks without the grill. The sides though sport probably the best...

audiosciencereview.com

Let's say vs:

Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M106 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased and drop shipped to me. It is not a new sample but came to me with full packaging and protective wrapper. The M106 costs US $1,000 each or $2,000 for a pair. It is only sold through dealer...

audiosciencereview.com

I would choose the Revel every day of the week, every day, at any time instead of those TuneTot.

 

[nerdstrike]

When I bought my towers, the salesman wanted to talk me down to the smallest of the range (the ones they had in) on the grounds that bigger speakers induce more room resonances. I think it was an attempt to mitigate customer disatisfaction from ending up with boomy bass, or perhaps some kind of longer term strategy to sell me something I'd want to upgrade later on... I dunno. Salesman are weird when you are trying to be objective about your purchase.

 

[DanielT]

When I bought my towers, the salesman wanted to talk me down to the smallest of the range (the ones they had in) on the grounds that bigger speakers induce more room resonances. I think it was an attempt to mitigate customer disatisfaction from ending up with boomy bass, or perhaps some kind of longer term strategy to sell me something I'd want to upgrade later on... I dunno. Salesman are weird when you are trying to be objective about your purchase.

It sounded the opposite as a good salesman, which did not start selling on you more and more expensive stuff.Satisfied customers become repeat customers. Basics in sales. DSJR can tell you more, he was a Hifi salesman for many years.

1:30 in the Video. That was not the case for you anyway.

Ha ha, that dialogue is spot on appropriate for this thread.

Edit:
Now I do not know your budget and so on but these are popular:

Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased new and drop shipped to me for testing. The DBR-62 costs US $600 a pair from multiple sources/dealers. The DBR-62 comes in black and walnut finish or the distressed Oak and...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[MaxRockbin]

Two 5" drivers have about 40 square inches of surface, 1 6.5" driver has about 33 inches.

yup my bad. Depending on the size of the dustcap and marketing overstatement. My JBL 305 "5 inch" drivers aren't close to 5" So the M16 is just has better bass despite less area!

 

[DSJR]

It sounded the opposite as a good salesman, which did not start selling on you more and more expensive stuff.Satisfied customers become repeat customers. Basics in sales. DSJR can tell you more, he was a Hifi salesman for many years.

What an insult, calling me a 'salesman...'

We were 'audio sales consultants' don't you know and I never worked on commission, so hopefully back then, any advice I gave was based on demonstration and experience, rather than which brand gave the biggest back handers or free skiing holidays (our sales director got all of those...) or best commission.

I was all but forced into attending a sales course offered by B&O in the mid 90's and I have to say it was brilliant really, as it was more about reading people, LISTENING to them and finding solutions to their audio needs within their budget. It helped me and I honestly don't think I was any more mercenary after. I made practically all my friends in this industry and many started out as customers as well as colleagues.