Burning Sounds
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Sorry you feel that way, no offence was intended.I'm through here. Things are too abrasive.
Sorry you feel that way, no offence was intended.I'm through here. Things are too abrasive.
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I see. 1kHz is a bit too low for the ribbon tweeter in my opinion, but then anything above 2 kHz will be way too high for the bass/mid panel…No, they are active and I also use DSP. They are 2.5Rs so the ribbon goes down to 1kHz. The first 2.5Rs produced used a first order x-over which resulted in quite a few blown ribbons as I understand it. Later models used a 12/18 BW x-over. I use a LR4 which gives the ribbon more protection and sounds fine to me (and measures well in room).
Testing a good pair of dipoles or omnis is high on my to do list. I've had a few different box speakers, good and bad, so with one of these, I know approximately how a couple of new box speakers will sound in my room. Thus, it would be interesting to test something new, a new design principle. I can easily imagine compromising a lot on pin point accuracy in the sound in favor of spaciousness, if it stands between those choices. Most important, however, is that the speakers "disappear". I really dislike when I can localize the sound to the speakers.
So a pair of good dipole, omni speakers would be nice to have. Maybe even rig up with an AVR and buy a number of used KEF eggs and test how it sounds then. My guess is good with music with many instruments. Big band jazz for example, but worse, compared to two speakers, with music that has few instruments when pin point accuracy is of greater importance. Please note I am only guessing and that solely based on my subjective opinion of how I think I want it to sound.
I have also moved to a new apartment and so far do not have much furniture. Then placing a couple of omnis in my living room I don't think, so far, is the most optimal thing to do. But sometime in the future, absolutely.
Incidentally, I now have a pair of vintage 10 inch Tannoy coaxials. Sounds surprisingly good I must say. Now I can tick it off my list, test coaxials that is.
Speaking of AMTs. Check here, I heard these at a vintage DIY fair a few years ago. DIY AMT. That's probably the best thing I've ever heard:
More on that build in the thread below:
Hifi Vintage DIY fair with pictures
I visited this fair yesterday! DIY & Vintage meeting in Mölnlycke Here is a short report. When: 6 November 2021 Where: Country: Sweden City: Gothenburg I took pictures myself BUT most were so damn blurred so I borrow pictures from this thread, taken by other participants. Pictures taken from...audiosciencereview.com
Really you need to EQ to at least similar response. You cannot do much about off axis, but direct sound you can get close. Otherwise everything is murky due to the FR differences. FR is the most obvious thing we hear.After a few days with the AMT dipoles, I moved the Omnis back in. I need to set-up a proper A/B to really compare instantaneously. That is going to take some rearranging to do it right. The initial impression was the Omnis created a bigger more immersive soundstage, but the dipoles were pretty good too.
I’ll check out the DIY AMT build. The HEIL ESS AMT 1b I have seem pretty bright on the high end and suspect the in room response is not great, but that was without any measurement. It dawned on me that I should try them with the grill covers on and see if that tames the hot high end any.
Really you need to EQ to at least similar response. You cannot do much about off axis, but direct sound you can get close. Otherwise everything is murky due to the FR differences. FR is the most obvious thing we hear.
Really you need to EQ to at least similar response. You cannot do much about off axis, but direct sound you can get close. Otherwise everything is murky due to the FR differences. FR is the most obvious thing we hear.
Speaking of AMTs. Check here, I heard these at a vintage DIY fair a few years ago. DIY AMT. That's probably the best thing I've ever heard:
More on that build in the thread below:
Hifi Vintage DIY fair with pictures
I visited this fair yesterday! DIY & Vintage meeting in Mölnlycke Here is a short report. When: 6 November 2021 Where: Country: Sweden City: Gothenburg I took pictures myself BUT most were so damn blurred so I borrow pictures from this thread, taken by other participants. Pictures taken from...audiosciencereview.com
Yes. There are no threads in bupoles. I have a pair of Msi7 and thr sound incredible compared to other speakers. I believe Floyd Toole was a proponent of this type of design. The company that made them..Mirage...used his research. II believe the use of frequency in using speakers to control room correction is probably a direct branch of this science. All I know is my 30 year old Mirage speakers that I got a a garage sale sound better thsn my 2k kefs.The same can be said for other “non-box” speakers like Omnis and bipoles—not even much discussion of all 3 types here on the forum. I found this thread, one of only a handful about dipoles when looking for info. After 50+ years of nothing but unipolar “box speakers”, I got some Omnis and was so taken by the immersive sound and huge soundstage, the next step seemed to be investigate other designs that have potential for a similar effect, bipoles and dipoles specifically. I’m testing some Definitive Technology bipolars now, some dipoles next on deck.
Back to your comment, while there are only a handful of Omni manufacturers, even fewer bipolar ones out there that I’ve found. I understand the potential negatives of all 3 designs, but can hardly listen to box speakers now.
Yes. There are no threads in bupoles. I have a pair of Msi7 and thr sound incredible compared to other speakers. I believe Floyd Toole was a proponent of this type of design. The company that made them..Mirage...used his research. II believe the use of frequency in using speakers to control room correction is probably a direct branch of this science. All I know is my 30 year old Mirage speakers that I got a a garage sale sound better thsn my 2k kefs.
There aren’t all that many current bipoles out there from what I found, just the Def Techs and some from Axiom from a quick search without digging much. The Def Techs I reported on over in the Omni thread ended up working better than any other dispersion type in my long and narrow kitchen as reported here in my previous post. They are more tolerant of close sidewall position, the only placement choice in my very long and narrow kitchen.
Blumlein 88 reported on his bipole experience in a much earlier post (#60) before my more recent comments in the thread:
Omnidirectional speakers
Omni's are intrinsically wrong, some half baked idea to replicate a live orchestra, good for parties though. Keithaudiosciencereview.com
When I get an A/B properly set-up, I plan to rotate my bipoles, dipoles, and unipoles in to directly compare to the Omnis, mainly for soundstage, but also in room response as well.
I just recently downloaded RoomCurve to my iOS devices (found it on the forum and seemed like a good quick check tool) and plan to do a quick measurement on the onmis when I figure out the program.
I am enjoying your (sighted, uncontrolled, non-peer-reviewed, not even apples-to-apples) speaker-type comparisons and comments immensely.
I've been kicking around the idea of resurrecting my old controlled-pattern bipolar design from fifteen years ago, and/or doing something conceptually similar. My bipolar design was only discontinued because critical components became unobtainium, and suitable alternatives are finally available.
I'd love to try to do something on the lines of the old AR MGC-1, but using modern DSP and amplification. I found out that one of the other profs does woodworking, so I'm going to try to tempt him to help me out on this (building boxes is not my gift).
The thread is about dipoles vs box but there is a lot of talk about omnis in it too.
It's just fun that omis is brought up.Yeah, that’s my fault…sorry…
I ended up here when switching to the AMT dipoles—my “project” is Omni vs dipole vs box vs bipole.
I’ll get some dipole data up next to stay on topic.
It's just fun that omis is brought up.