Crossover and PEQ guidance needed for a 2.1 system

[Yanec]

Greetings,

I am building a 2.1 system with the SVS 3000 Micro sub and a pair of Swissonic A306 active monitors (Erin's Review).

The setup: Wiim Pro Plus - feeding via RCA full spectrum stereo into the 3000 Micro - 3000 Micro doing the crossover and feeding via RCA the spectrum above crossover into the Swissonic A306 monitors.

Please advise:

1. Recommended for this setup Speaker/Subwoofer Crossover Frequency? 60Hz vs 80Hz vs 100Hz?

2. Should I PEQ (using wiim's built-in peq) the 2.5db dip at ~1400Hz seen on the attached graphs? I understand that it is a narrow dip that will probably not be audible but it might be better to correct it anyway? What PEQ parameters would be best, especially the Q factor would this peq correction require?

Thank you in advance!

 

[MarkS]

I own the SVS 3000 Micro and AFAIK it does not have a high-pass filter for the main speakers.

I would start at 60 Hz and see how it sounds (or, better, measures with REW).

I would not try to fix the 1.4kHz dip. It's also in the directivity index so likely not EQable.

 

[Yanec]

I own the SVS 3000 Micro and AFAIK it does not have a high-pass filter for the main speakers.

I would start at 60 Hz and see how it sounds (or, better, measures with REW).

I would not try to fix the 1.4kHz dip. It's also in the directivity index so likely not EQable.

Thanks for your reply!

All clear regarding the peq.

If SVS 3000 micro is connected to the streamer via RCA input and the speakers are connected to the sub via the RCA output would it always pass full spectrum to the RCA out? Even after applying the crossover settings in the SVS application? No way to do the bass management?

If that's the case I should get a different streamer with sub out besides the analog out for the speakers...

 

[alex-z]

Most consumers subwoofers do not high-pass the speaker outputs, this is a good reason to use external DSP. Having a high-pass filter reduces distortion and improves dynamic range, due to less woofer excursion.

If you won't be using a high-pass filter, set the subwoofer low-pass to match the natural bass rolloff of the speakers. Which in this case is 45-50Hz.

That 1400Hz deviation is small and likely inaudible. The broad dip from 150 to 600Hz should be fixed instead.

Did you already buy the SVS 3000 Micro? It usually isn't the best choice, as the SVS SB-1000 Pro offers substantially better output for less money.

 

[Yanec]

Most consumers subwoofers do not high-pass the speaker outputs, this is a good reason to use external DSP. Having a high-pass filter reduces distortion and improves dynamic range, due to less woofer excursion.

If you won't be using a high-pass filter, set the subwoofer low-pass to match the natural bass rolloff of the speakers. Which in this case is 45-50Hz.

That 1400Hz deviation is small and likely inaudible. The broad dip from 150 to 600Hz should be fixed instead.

Did you already buy the SVS 3000 Micro? It usually isn't the best choice, as the SVS SB-1000 Pro offers substantially better output for less money.

Thanks!

What would peq parameters for fixing the 15-600 hz broader dip would you suggest as a starting point?

Please recommend a good streamer with sub out, so that I can use it instead of the Wiim Pro Plus. I cancelled my Wiim order.

 

[alex-z]

Thanks!

What would peq parameters for fixing the 15-600 hz broader dip would you suggest as a starting point?

Please recommend a good streamer with bass management or sub out, so that I can use it instead of the Wiim Pro Plus. I can still cancel my Wiim order.

Get a measurement mic. Your frequency response below 400-500Hz is highly room dependent, PEQ parameters will be unique to your setup.

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

Nothing wrong with the WiiM Pro Plus. Just run optical output into external DSP.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd - Good for basic multi-sub integration.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex - Slightly higher signal quality, Dirac Live support, balanced IO available. Technically this can replace the streamer, if you just send audio from your phone via Bluetooth LDAC.

 

[Yanec]

Get a measurement mic. Your frequency response below 400-500Hz is highly room dependent, PEQ parameters will be unique to your setup.

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

Nothing wrong with the WiiM Pro Plus. Just run optical output into external DSP.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd - Good for basic multi-sub integration.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex - Slightly higher signal quality, Dirac Live support, balanced IO available. Technically this can replace the streamer, if you just send audio from your phone via Bluetooth LDAC.

Thanks! Please advise streamers that have good SINAD as the wiim pro plus but also have sub out and bass management?

 

[Yanec]

Get a measurement mic. Your frequency response below 400-500Hz is highly room dependent, PEQ parameters will be unique to your setup.

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

Nothing wrong with the WiiM Pro Plus. Just run optical output into external DSP.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd - Good for basic multi-sub integration.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex - Slightly higher signal quality, Dirac Live support, balanced IO available. Technically this can replace the streamer, if you just send audio from your phone via Bluetooth LDAC.

Or perhaps just a crossover box coming after the wiim pro plus and before the speakers/sub?

Would something like the Pyle Electronic Crossover Network degrade the sound?

 

[MarkS]

Minidsp device as suggested by @alex_z is by far your best bet. Get one with Dirac, because room correction is essential to decent sound.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I would start without any kind of external DSP or crossover box. Just set the sub's crossover to you speaker's in-room -3dB frequency and use the SVS and/or WIIM PEQ to pull down any major peaks as measured with REW and a UMIK. That may be all you need to do.

(Having said that, I will never recommend against Dirac if you have the means. I use it everywhere.)

 

[Yanec]

I would start without any kind of external DSP or crossover box. Just set the sub's crossover to you speaker's in-room -3dB frequency and use the SVS and/or WIIM PEQ to pull down any major peaks as measured with REW and a UMIK. That may be all you need to do.

(Having said that, I will never recommend against Dirac if you have the means. I use it everywhere.)

Clear, thanks to all gents! Great steering and help!

The system is now changed to:

1. miniDSP SHD (replacing the Wiim Pro Plus streamer, integrating the sub, and adding Dirac live)
2. SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer
3. Swissonic A306 active monitors

Hopefully this 2.1 delivers lots of joy for my casual music listening and TV watching!

Since my other surround systems have only Audyssey now I have to learn how to make the Dirac calibration correctly and in the best way. Please suggest any links to structured guidance/instructions that you find good.

 

[boxerfan88]

I would suggest:
* crossing over @ 80Hz so that your mains are relieved from high woofer excursion
* leave the 1.4kHz alone
* try a few subwoofer locations until you find the optimal one with least dips
* after finalising the subwoofer location, then PEQ the bass region to even out the frequency response

 

[Compact_D]

I prefer leaving mains alone and blending in subwoofer. This is best done with miniDSP for sub only, cheapest one will do + REW.
The goal is to be able to leave subwoofer off when it is not necessary or undesirable. Of course, if monitors perform well without sub.

 

[Yanec]

I would suggest:
* crossing over @ 80Hz so that your mains are relieved from high woofer excursion
* leave the 1.4kHz alone
* try a few subwoofer locations until you find the optimal one with least dips
* after finalising the subwoofer location, then PEQ the bass region to even out the frequency response

Much appreciated. I was think the very same, thanks for confirming.

As to sub location - in my room a sub has less issues when placed in the corner. BUT the SVS 3000 Micro has side facing sub-woofers on both sides, so placing it in the corner will have one sub-woofer facing the wall.... would that be something to better avoid?

 

[somebodyelse]

You may be able to modify the DSP on the A306 to do the high pass part of the crossover. From info in the A305 thread the A series have an ADAU1701 that can be programmed with SigmaStudio, with the pins available on the board. I don't think anyone here has said they've actually done it yet though.

 

[Yanec]

You may be able to modify the DSP on the A306 to do the high pass part of the crossover. From info in the A305 thread the A series have an ADAU1701 that can be programmed with SigmaStudio, with the pins available on the board. I don't think anyone here has said they've actually done it yet though.

Thanks, I read this thread previously when I was deciding between the Elac DBR 62 and the Swissonic A306. (Asked Erin and he supported my decision to go for the A306).

Intriguing to see the ADAU1701 and FIR used by the German engineers at Swissonic, for people like me who like playing with such stuff that's future fun. But it's not implemented in sigmastudio and not clear if it will be implemented soon (or ever).

I found a simple solution already but decided to have fun with Dirac live 3 in the miniDSP SHD.

The simple solution is a fixed high-pass: Harrison Labs FMOD, which can be had in a number of frequency/slope combinations. I consulted the guys at SVS (thanks Jack!) and they do like and recommend this simple solution. Still I decided to use dirac room calibration to make the very impressive A306 shine to their full potential.