cobbling first setup together- powering KEF R3 for low-medium volume listening?

[Chrispy]

yeah, the more i think this over, the more this advice makes sense. i've been trying tidal as an alternative to spotify, as a plus its been great to have access to Neil Youngs' catalog.

Personally when I tried tidal, it didn't have many things I had on spotify....then there was the whole bs mqa thing as well as jayz' ads that turned me off to tidal....in the end don't think the "master" level is generally worth as much as convienience/library options.

 

[Audiomn]

Grab an SHD or SHD studio, DIRAC is huge. The Buckeye 252 is perfect or grab 1 or 2 Topping PA-5s or Buckeyes Purifi for more clean headroom. Get one or two SVS PB1000 Pro (ported is better, don’t believe the sealed myths). Buy rugs and wall dampening stuff, IKEA curtains, etc. get cheap audio treatments as the budget allows on Amazon.

Buy the miniDSP stuff from Deer Creek Audio and work with them to get the whole setup ruler flat on your preferred Harmon curve using REW and the the mic that comes with the SHD, the parametric filters on the SVS and DIRAC on the MiniDSP.

Get World’s Best Cables XLRs and a spool of Monoprice copper 12ga speaker cable or Blue Jeans cables on Amazon.

Do an Apple Music subscription for lossless and an Apple TV to feed it for a nearly unlimited library for $10 a month or use the MiniDSP features and steam from your computer’s library. Use the Amazon Basics HDMI extractor and buy an Amazon Basics HDMI cable and optical cable to connect to the MiniDSP SHD or use your TV with optical set to pass-through.

This setup will blow your mind and will sound and measure objectively better than 90% of “Audiophile” systems.

 

[ZolaIII]

@phats22 lot of the things you (and others) wrote about choice of components doesn't make sense.
Getting a power amplifier with only balanced inputs is OK only if you will proceed all the way balanced meaning balanced MiniDSP and sub's. Those KEF's do drop down impediment low (3.2 Ohms min) so amplifier with good low impedance tolerance is recommended. For this reason I won't recommend what I do usually (Yamaha A-S7xx~8xx range). Try to find Hypex NC based one with both inputs (balanced/unbalanced) and very good done unbalanced one's (S/N dB rating) which isn't exactly easiest thing to do in budget form right now. Future more you would need two sub's crossed higher (100~120 Hz) with R3 in L-R manner, the SVS-SB1000 (non Pro) will do just fine. If you really want to listen to moderate - low volume levels you will really need/want to use equal loudness normalisation in order for that to work. Unfortunately I don't know multichannel device (DSP, DAC or Interface with one (maybe someone else does). I know software PC solutions paird with a deacent multichannel sound card (EQ APO, JRiver...) but I don't know how suitable that is for you.

 

[Audiomn]

@phats22 lot of the things you (and others) wrote about choice of components doesn't make sense.
Getting a power amplifier with only balanced inputs is OK only if you will proceed all the way balanced meaning balanced MiniDSP and sub's. Those KEF's do drop down impediment low (3.2 Ohms min) so amplifier with good low impedance tolerance is recommended. For this reason I won't recommend what I do usually (Yamaha A-S7xx~8xx range). Try to find Hypex NC based one with both inputs (balanced/unbalanced) and very good done unbalanced one's (S/N dB rating) which isn't exactly easiest thing to do in budget form right now. Future more you would need two sub's crossed higher (100~120 Hz) with R3 in L-R manner, the SVS-SB1000 (non Pro) will do just fine. If you really want to listen to moderate - low volume levels you will really need/want to use equal loudness normalisation in order for that to work. Unfortunately I don't know multichannel device (DSP, DAC or Interface with one (maybe someone else does). I know software PC solutions paird with a deacent multichannel sound card (EQ APO, JRiver...) but I don't know how suitable that is for you.

R3s don’t need a 100hz cross, you can go lower. PB-1000 pros are far superior for flat output than the SB-1000 pros. He needs a DAC/preamp with room correction and a low/high pass filter for best performance in my opinion. Agree about amps that can handle low impedance like the Hypex’s, Toppings or Purifi.

 

[ZolaIII]

R3s don’t need a 100hz cross, you can go lower. PB-1000 pros are far superior for flat output than the SB-1000 pros. He needs a DAC/preamp with room correction and a low/high pass filter for best performance in my opinion. Agree about amps that can handle low impedance like the Hypex’s, Toppings or Purifi.

Really?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/kuxkdb29htgwflj/Nearfield%20Driveunits%20%26%20Port.png?dl=0

They fall regarding woffer below 100 Hz, port cuff extends to 50 Hz but fals for 5~6 dB from 100~120 Hz. There are DAC's with Loudness like some offering from RME and some other firm's but they are all two chenel one's as much as I know. There are stand alone crossovers (mostly analog) and then again balanced.
I am sticking to Windows PC with JRiver for the needs of audio and video processing as it is. I never mentioned SVS Pro series but non Pro sealed basic SB-1000 for the price performance ratio. Of course you/he/me will of course need to EQ bass so a little more linear sub response don't mean much (if anything). Plugin the R3 port's and crossing higher is actually a good idea for lots of reasons (half tone port cuff cut down, better early to late sound arrival, less refractions and in generally less room problems, less R3 cabinet resonance on first crossovers point (400 Hz) and in 700 - 900 Hz range). They will still remain narrow (R3) dispersion and will be needed to be aimed at ear (both axis) regarding tweater so so sweet spot won't be wide.
Luckily he have nice big room for mid to far feald (3 to 4 m) proper placement with enough space behind both him and speakers. Would advise to stay at 3 m even with sub's.
Just my thoughts about it.

 

[CapMan]

Yep, so far it's been perfect amount of power. I'm able to run it at moderate levels without disturbing the neighbors.

As far as turntable... This past year I started taking intro jazz piano lessons and along the way have been deepening my education/ exposure to the greats. I happened upon an original vinyl of McCoy Tyner (Today and Tomorrow) and after purchasing as memorabilia, realized it might be fun to actually get into vinyl. So super fledgling interest

I also had a love affair with vintage vinyl for a few years, part of the joy was visiting used record stores and on occasion finding a gem.

Worth budgeting for a record cleaning machine - I had an Oki Noki vacuum cleaner that wasn’t too expensive.

Ultimately I reverted to streaming 100% for lots of reasons, but the sound of a needle drop on a Sunday morning with a coffee and some well-travelled jazz LP was special!

 

[Audiomn]

Really?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/kuxkdb29htgwflj/Nearfield%20Driveunits%20%26%20Port.png?dl=0

They fall regarding woffer below 100 Hz, port cuff extends to 50 Hz but fals for 5~6 dB from 100~120 Hz. There are DAC's with Loudness like some offering from RME and some other firm's but they are all two chenel one's as much as I know. There are stand alone crossovers (mostly analog) and then again balanced.
I am sticking to Windows PC with JRiver for the needs of audio and video processing as it is. I never mentioned SVS Pro series but non Pro sealed basic SB-1000 for the price performance ratio. Of course you/he/me will of course need to EQ bass so a little more linear sub response don't mean much (if anything). Plugin the R3 port's and crossing higher is actually a good idea for lots of reasons (half tone port cuff cut down, better early to late sound arrival, less refractions and in generally less room problems, less R3 cabinet resonance on first crossovers point (400 Hz) and in 700 - 900 Hz range). They will still remain narrow (R3) dispersion and will be needed to be aimed at ear (both axis) regarding tweater so so sweet spot won't be wide.
Luckily he have nice big room for mid to far feald (3 to 4 m) proper placement with enough space behind both him and speakers. Would advise to stay at 3 m even with sub's.
Just my thoughts about it.

I’ve had better results at 80 vs 100-120 personally in a mid-sized room and the half port plug in the R3s with one sub (SB-4000). I experimented extensively with REW and DIRAC. That’s of course just my room.

The PB-1000s have better output across the range in a room like his, especially if he only runs one. This also helps a ton if he watches movies & TV on his setup. Two subs of course would be ideal.

He’s going to want a DAC that, at the minimum, has high and low pass filtering and a good eq. He’s going to want a sub with advanced filtering as well, especially if his DAC doesn’t have it (why I recommended the SVS pro with its nifty phone app with lots of options).

I recommend the MiniDSP SHD because it has has excellent DAC performance, remote, can use as a preamp with tons of inputs and outputs, has streaming capabilities, high/low pass, great eq, top of the line room correction, and comes with the UMIK-1 mic that he needs for both Dirac and REW. It also gets him a headphone setup.

As far as dispersion goes I totally agree with you to toe them in to ear. I do the same with mine.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Audiomn room is room and he will probably have a good response as he have large room so he can place them good and better extension at bottom, better than you or me in medium sized one's. The Pro series come with built in DSP (but loses fixed 80 Hz high pass pass trough) and lower range has only cuple PEQ's while software is far from polished and bug free. Two is better than one and I prefer close enclosure sub's so for the price of about one SVS PB-2000 I will recommend going with two SVS SB-1000. MiniDSP SHD is a little expensive to say at least. MiniDSP Flex + WiiM Mini will do a job the same and without Dirac with little more effort (using FIR). Price difference is about 500$ and even more out of US between SHD and Flex with UMIK-1 and WiiM Mini. Even so best closed black box will be very limited and behind open box one's which can even be entirely free regarding software price.
Best regards and have a nice time.

 

[Audiomn]

@Audiomn room is room and he will probably have a good response as he have large room so he can place them good and better extension at bottom, better than you or me in medium sized one's. The Pro series come with built in DSP (but loses fixed 80 Hz high pass pass trough) and lower range has only cuple PEQ's while software is far from polished and bug free. Two is better than one and I prefer close enclosure sub's so for the price of about one SVS PB-2000 I will recommend going with two SVS SB-1000. MiniDSP SHD is a little expensive to say at least. MiniDSP Flex + WiiM Mini will do a job the same and without Dirac with little more effort (using FIR). Price difference is about 500$ and even more out of US between SHD and Flex with UMIK-1 and WiiM Mini. Even so best closed black box will be very limited and behind open box one's which can even be entirely free regarding software price.
Best regards and have a nice time.

They discontinued the SB-1000. There’s only a $200 difference between the SB-1000 Pro and PB-1000 Pro.

If he can track down two OG SB-1000s from their outlet or used that would be a ok option, albeit with far less output and range. They have a smaller amp section and different driver than the Pros.

If price is a concern on the SHD, I recommended the SHD Studio which still gets him pretty much everything the SHD has minus some inputs/outputs. It’s far easier for a person newer to all this to set things up with Deer Creek’s help on an SHD.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Audiomn yes the new Pro 1000 & 2000 series have a better driver, actually plate class D amplifier is the same with addition of class A 25 W stage. Didn't know they disconnected SB-1000 which until recent could be found for about 450$ which makes a lot of different to PB -1000 Pro with 800$ price.
I tend to advise components which will achieve maximum effect for minimal price (not skipping on quality or important stuff).

 

[Audiomn]

@Audiomn yes the new Pro 1000 & 2000 series have a better driver, actually plate class D amplifier is the same with addition of class A 25 W stage. Didn't know they disconnected SB-1000 which until recent could be found for about 450$ which makes a lot of different to PB -1000 Pro with 800$ price.
I tend to advise components which will achieve maximum effect for minimal price (not skipping on quality or important stuff).

Yeah, totally with you on that approach. Forgot to mention to OP that SVS runs a killer Labor Day sale. Keep an eye on their site this week, it’s one of the best times to buy their subs.

 

[Chrispy]

@Audiomn yes the new Pro 1000 & 2000 series have a better driver, actually plate class D amplifier is the same with addition of class A 25 W stage. Didn't know they disconnected SB-1000 which until recent could be found for about 450$ which makes a lot of different to PB -1000 Pro with 800$ price.
I tend to advise components which will achieve maximum effect for minimal price (not skipping on quality or important stuff).

FWIW more comparable to the SB1000 Pro at $600. Or check the outlet for deals, sometimes they have the older subs too.

 

[phats22]

Yeah, totally with you on that approach. Forgot to mention to OP that SVS runs a killer Labor Day sale. Keep an eye on their site this week, it’s one of the best times to buy their subs.

....so i may have seen this when i was looking at the SVS site for no particular reason

i've done a bit of reading on subs, enough to realize there are many 'camps' regarding ported vs not. we honestly do use our speakers as much for movies as music but its not crazy and i'm using this upgrade to listen to more music.

will be looking out for deals this weekend

 

[radix]

....so i may have seen this when i was looking at the SVS site for no particular reason

i've done a bit of reading on subs, enough to realize there are many 'camps' regarding ported vs not. we honestly do use our speakers as much for movies as music but its not crazy and i'm using this upgrade to listen to more music.

will be looking out for deals this weekend

My setups are usually space-challenged and I use sealed sub. Yep, they don't go as low as ported, but really they do just fine.

Here's the in-room response I get with an Arendal 1723 1S with an SVS 3000 Micro to fill in some nulls. By the way, I really love that 1723 1S. I got it in the white to match my Revel F228be, and they look perfect together. yes, I put in a bit of a bass bump because I guess I like bass.

With ARC Genesis, I still had to use a little bit of DSP EQ on the subs as I can't get Genesis to do exactly what I want. Probably pilot error.

 

[Audiomn]

....so i may have seen this when i was looking at the SVS site for no particular reason

i've done a bit of reading on subs, enough to realize there are many 'camps' regarding ported vs not. we honestly do use our speakers as much for movies as music but its not crazy and i'm using this upgrade to listen to more music.

will be looking out for deals this weekend

It heavily depends on price point. If you're watching any TV or movies or listening to music with any low bass tracks (electronica, hip-hop, etc.) , you'll be disappointed in a sealed sub that's under $1000. They just don't have the output or range that a more efficient ported design has in that price range. The PB-1000 Pro and PB-2000 Pro will have some crazy 12db difference down low and actually be able to get down to 20hz. The SB-1000 and SB-2000 will be underwhelming in your space for TV and movies. Two of them will add about 3-6db depending on placement, but will still have limited output.

If you spend more like radix's Arendal or an SB-4000 (what I run) you'll get the advantages of the sealed subwoofer and higher quality output, but they cost a lot more.

In your price range, I would recommend a PB-1000 Pro in the outlet for $599 and then add a second one when budget allows. Here's a great article comparing the two:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-pb-1000-pro-sb-1000-pro

Hope that helps!

 

[Audiomn]

Wow, it looks like SVS just started a really good sale on the older, discontinued subwoofers! They are factory new for the following prices and an extra 5% off if you buy two:

• SB-1000 (Black Ash) $349.99
• PB-1000 (Black Ash) $429.99
• SB-2000 (Black Ash) $499.99

Home Audio Speakers, Subwoofers and Cables | SVS

SVS builds speakers, subwoofers and audio accessories for music and home theater surround sound systems. Proudly engineered in Youngstown, Ohio.

www.svsound.com

If I were you OP, I’d snag a couple PB-1000s or SB-2000s.

 

[radix]

Wow, it looks like SVS just started a really good sale on the older, discontinued subwoofers! They are factory new for the following prices and an extra 5% off if you buy two:

• SB-1000 (Black Ash) $349.99
• PB-1000 (Black Ash) $429.99
• SB-2000 (Black Ash) $499.99

Home Audio Speakers, Subwoofers and Cables | SVS

SVS builds speakers, subwoofers and audio accessories for music and home theater surround sound systems. Proudly engineered in Youngstown, Ohio.

www.svsound.com

If I were you OP, I’d snag a couple PB-1000s or SB-2000s.

If you like the black ash (as opposed to the gloss finishes) and can live without the bluetooth setup app, it is a great deal.

Their outlet page also has deals on most models, but you need to check the condition description.

All Outlet Specials

Deals and discounts on top-rated SVS speakers and subwoofers. Lowest prices, fully warrantied.

www.svsound.com

 

[phats22]

ended up going with 1 PB-1000 pro; like the idea of what the app brings and a gentle introduction to tailoring the setup and settings to my room.

additional question - is it 'worth' getting a reference mic and REW if i'm limited in how i can adjust the EQ? or is it truly more about placement?

fwiw, at this point and for all of my talk of keeping things simple, i could probably be talked into going back to a minidsp and power amp setup. i know i have tons to learn but i also know i'm going to enjoy this journey; also, i'm still in the return window from amazon

 

[radix]

ended up going with 1 PB-1000 pro; like the idea of what the app brings and a gentle introduction to tailoring the setup and settings to my room.

additional question - is it 'worth' getting a reference mic and REW if i'm limited in how i can adjust the EQ? or is it truly more about placement?

fwiw, at this point and for all of my talk of keeping things simple, i could probably be talked into going back to a minidsp and power amp setup. i know i have tons to learn but i also know i'm going to enjoy this journey; also, i'm still in the return window from amazon

The measurement mic will help you blend the sound levels. You need to adjust the sub volume (and EQ) so it has a smooth transition to the speakers. You'll get some limited PEQ on the sub to help tailor it, but position is the lion's share of it.

 

[ZolaIII]

@phats22 mic is essential and will bring more improvement than you can even imagine. You do need separate (hardware) chenel for sub in order to do high pass on mains so it's either a PC with multichannel sound card or such interface or standalone DSP. There is no replacement for proper placement and don't worry using REW and making PEQ's ain't that hard once you get a hang of it, all it needs is a little bit of learning and practice. Don't worry you will get there regarding that and with a help from hire.