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Can we compare SINAD between a SACD/CD player and a DAC?

Dominique-T

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I am using a SACD Yamaha CD-S2100. Released 5 years ago, the measurements were considered quite good.

- Signal to noise ratio: 116 db
- Distorsion: 0.002%

This seems to give a SINAD of 94 db. Not really exiting...

Am I wrong?

Dominique
 
What's your point? There is no technical reason that I know that would not make it possible. Although I would really trust the figures on the CD-S2100 unless you measure it. On the other hand, if you think that a better DAC will improve the sound, it's highly unlikely.
 
No exciting. But not bad. Idk the price of it. But if you like it then that's fine.
 
I am using a SACD Yamaha CD-S2100. Released 5 years ago, the measurements were considered quite good.

- Signal to noise ratio: 116 db
- Distortion: 0.002%

This seems to give a SINAD of 94 db. Not really exiting...

...but also not terrible (using an ES9016 8 channel DAC chip), and I believe you can use this also as USB DAC?
It looks great, both inside and out - unless you have complaints just hang on to it.
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Thanks for making me look this up, enjoyable!
 
I do not complain, I like it very much... But wanted to compare with what is measured here.

I bought it used two years ago, I like the quality of tHe construction.

My point was that the measures given by Yamaha are related to the CD/SACD function. I am wondering if they are the same for the USB DAC function...
 
My point was that the measures given by Yamaha are related to the CD/SACD function. I am wondering if they are the same for the USB DAC function...
No way of knowing really, without a proper measurement or perhaps a blind test.
 
Dominque, do you want to compare with, for example, a little SMSL SU8? I've understood you are in France. I am in Issy Les Moulineaux...

First you can compare the pictures...

SMSL SU-8 DAC Version 2 Main PCB.jpg
 
I have already compared with the Khadas, the SMSL Sanskrit 10th, the Benchmark 3...

I am leaving in Germany.

For the moment, I have not been capable to identify significant differences from a subjective listening standpoint...
 
For the moment, I have not been capable to identify significant differences from a subjective listening standpoint...
Then I suggest you stop worrying. Don't fall into the "the grass is greener on the other side" trap. Use the one that have the build, features and price point you prefer.
 
I am using a SACD Yamaha CD-S2100. Released 5 years ago, the measurements were considered quite good.

- Signal to noise ratio: 116 db
- Distorsion: 0.002%

This seems to give a SINAD of 94 db. Not really exiting...

Am I wrong?

Dominique

It is technically impossible to get better SINAD than 93 - 98 dB from any CD player with 44.1kHz/16bit CD discs. Impossible, if me measure unweighted over 20Hz - 20kHz frequency range, regardless noise shaping dither, regardless resampling, if the source file is 44.1kHz/16bit. I will prepare a thread on this. The same applies to any DAC fed with 44.1kHz/16bit CD format signal, regardless SINAD of the DAC itself and regardless its circuit topology. The source format is a bottleneck.
 
It is technically impossible to get better SINAD than 93 - 98 dB from any CD player with 44.1kHz/16bit CD discs. Impossible, if me measure unweighted over 20Hz - 20kHz frequency range, regardless noise shaping dither, regardless resampling, if the source file is 44.1kHz/16bit. I will prepare a thread on this. The same applies to any DAC fed with 44.1kHz/16bit CD format signal, regardless SINAD of the DAC itself and regardless its circuit topology. The source format is a bottleneck.

S/N in many CD players can still be SOTA. I have players well over 110dB with residuals around 1uV (non-muted). SINAD of course is limited by 16bit.
 
The MAX a CD can do is 90.3dB (dynamic range, NOT 93, 96 or 98). This is limited to the format they (mainly Sony) choose in 1980 (aka Red Book). It's not 65536 (16-bit), but 15-bit, more here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=114725

SACD by other hand, can do a max of 105dB (freq from 20Hz to 50kHz). Should be 70~100kHz (max), but to remove some of the extreme high-frequency noise introduced by noise shaping, some SACD players incorporate a 50 kHz low-pass filter that limits the audio signal’s high-frequency response.

So in other words, we don't need any DAC beyond 192kHz @ 24-bit really... the rest is pure marketing.
 
Gradius, I'm afraid your statements are all baseless and should be discarded.
 
It doesnt matter if the values represented by the 16 bits are -32768 up to +32767, or 0 up to 65535. There are still 2^16 different levels, whatever offset you use to count them. The minimum possible amplitude is that of a signal that only takes values one unit apart. It doesn't matter where those adjacent values fall. They could be 0 and 1, or 777 and 778, -345 and -344, or if unsigned perhaps 42069 and 42070. The perpetrator of the 15 bit dynamic range nonsense in the referenced vinylengine thread was saying something about 0 being below the noise floor therefore the minimum signal has amplitude 2 bits. This is complete nonsense. First of all, what is the so called noise floor they refer to? It seems like they already assume that a one-bit amplitude signal is already overwhelmed by noise? What noise?? Secondly, as I said, even if it could possibly make any sense that the level called 0 is unuseable as a local minimum or maximum, (it makes no sense, but let's humor them and pretend it does ), any offset signal that varies between two consecutive codes both on the same side of zero does not include the (evil noisy) zero code. Thus we have an example of a meaningful minimum signal of one unit amplitude and of course the maximum is the signal with extremes of -32768 and +32767. Or in the unsigned case 0 and 65535. Either way signed or unsigned the ratio of max peak-to-peak to min peak-to-peak is 65535 = 2^16-1 = 10^(16 log_10(2))-1 = approximately 10^4.816. The base 10 logarithm of this number is 4.816, so stated or in decibels,
the ratio is 20*4.816 = 96.32 dB
 
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