Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[J.M. Noble]

All of which is irrelevant, unfortunately. If everybody voted with their money and only bought uncompressed releases, then the accountants and artists would change what they do. But the very large majority of consumers don't care, and in fact, many prefer the compressed versions (they can hear the music more clearly in noisy environments, and compressed music often sounds punchier).

Please take a look at the RIAA chart I just posted.

Hardly anyone is "buying music". They are taking what the streaming services are giving them, and this means tracks need to match what everyone else is doing.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Please take a look at the RIAA chart I just posted.

Hardly anyone is "buying music". They are taking what the streaming services are giving them, and this means tracks need to match what everyone else is doing.

Of course, the levels on streaming services are normalised using EBU R128, so the music providers can't "game" the service through releasing ever more louder / compressed versions.

 

[Robin L]

Please take a look at the RIAA chart I just posted.

Hardly anyone is "buying music". They are taking what the streaming services are giving them, and this means tracks need to match what everyone else is doing.

That means that I can (and did) listen to three different recordings of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances this morning, all uncompressed because Classical releases usually have only a touch of limiting, for the most part. And if I want to listen to more recordings of the Slavonic Dances that's obviously possible. If I was chained to physical media this would not be possible.

 

[MatrixS2000]

A lot of people want it louder. It's only "audiophiles" who are concerned. And they are not the majority of the folks buying the recordings.

And that is their choice. Do you understand what I am saying? I am not trying to take that choice away from them.

But streaming is the dominant source of music listening these days so the point is moot.

You are repeating back to me what I already stated minus the part where vinyl sales are increasing - so no the point is not moot.

 

[MatrixS2000]

All of which is irrelevant, unfortunately. If everybody voted with their money and only bought uncompressed releases, then the accountants and artists would change what they do.

Unfortunately being the key word. Let me ask a different question. If you had the choice to buy a smashed piece of music or a piece which reflected the DR of the mix sans limiter, which would you buy?

 

[Robin L]

And that is their choice. Do you understand what I am saying? I am not trying to take that choice away from them.

The record companies are going to issue the version of the recording most likely to sell. They are not interested in double inventory when they know that one of the inventories will not sell nearly as well.

You are repeating back to me what I already stated minus the part where vinyl sales are increasing - so no the point is not moot.

People buying physical media want something that provides them with the perception that the object is more durable. However, LPs aren't more durable. In any case, I've given up on LPs about 5 years ago and have no intention of going back. To be honest, LPs don't make any sense to me.

 

[Robin L]

Unfortunately being the key word. Let me ask a different question. If you had the choice to buy a smashed piece of music or a piece which reflected the DR of the mix sans limiter, which would you buy?

Am I going to be playing it in my car?

 

[MatrixS2000]

That means that I can (and did) listen to three different recordings of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances this morning, all uncompressed because Classical releases usually have only a touch of limiting, for the most part. And if I want to listen to more recordings of the Slavonic Dances that's obviously possible. If I was chained to physical media this would not be possible.

Great, so you concede the point! Now try listening to different genres of music that are not that fortunate. Why should only classical music listeners enjoy music free of limitation?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Let me ask a different question. If you had the choice to buy a smashed piece of music or a piece which reflected the DR of the mix sans limiter, which would you buy?

If they are identical, except for compression, I'd buy the uncompressed version, because I have a quiet listening room and a system able to play very wide dynamic range. But I represent something like 0.01% of the buying public. Unfortunately, I'm irrelevant...

 

[MatrixS2000]

Am I going to be playing it in my car?

No.

 

[Robin L]

Great, so you concede the point! Now try listening to different genres of music that are not that fortunate. Why should only classical music listeners enjoy music free of limitation?

Because of the demands of the market. In any case, I've got recordings of older pop music that were crushed when first issued. Heavily limited pop music is not a new thing.

 

[Robin L]

No.

Well, most people will.

 

[MatrixS2000]

If they are identical, except for compression, I'd buy the uncompressed version, because I have a quiet listening room and a system able to play very wide dynamic range. But I represent something like 0.01% of the buying public. Unfortunately, I'm irrelevant...

Same here and thank you for the honest answer.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Well, most people will.

I answered that way to force an answer. If I would have said yes, then the already discussed compressed versions are better in loud environments would have been your response.

When I buy a record, it usually comes with a smashed digital download. So I can play that in my car, although I play my digitized vinyl version.

 

[J.M. Noble]

If they are identical, except for compression, I'd buy the uncompressed version, because I have a quiet listening room and a system able to play very wide dynamic range. But I represent something like 0.01% of the buying public. Unfortunately, I'm irrelevant...

Have you listened to a pair of Airpods Pro in noise cancellation mode? Millions of people take their quiet listening room with them wherever they go. These days I prefer my Airpods Pro 2s over my Sennheiser HD600s even in a quiet room. Sure, the 2.1 Dynaudio system in my large well-treated listening room gives me a better overall experience ... but the Airpods aren't far behind. Millions of people have the same experience every day.

But looking at the RIAA revenue numbers, you're probably a larger part of the "buying" public than you think: most people rent access to music now rather than buying.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Have you listened to a pair of Airpods Pro in noise cancellation mode? Millions of people take their quiet listening room with them wherever they go

I have. The noise cancelling is impressive, but it is limited. My listening room is much quieter across ALL audio frequencies than Airpod Pros used in a busy office or in a train.

But looking at the RIAA revenue numbers, you're probably a larger part of the "buying" public than you think: most people rent access to music now rather than buying

Except 99% of my listening is not streamed.

 

[J.M. Noble]

I have. The noise cancelling is impressive, but it is limited. My listening room is much quieter across ALL audio frequencies than Airpod Pros used in a busy office or in a train.

Do you work in a call center? Also, I'm from San Diego so my experience with "trains" is limited to our fairly quiet "trolley" system and the smooth & quiet Amtrak connector route that keeps getting washed into the Pacific Ocean. I spend very little time on either. There are a ton of other places that are much quieter--including the living room couch, which is where people like my teenage daughter & son listen to most of their music.

Except 99% of my listening is not streamed.

Yes, that's the point: you are a member of a small minority, namely the "buyers" as opposed to "renters".

 

[killdozzer]

Another thing I noticed in all types of conversations that compare records to CDs or digital files is that it's always bringing out the absolute best a record ever achieved (which is not much, of course), but this is like 3% of records if that. And it's always bringing out some Bieber absolute botched garbage mastering CD.

Look guys, people are buying the lower tier turntables and second hand Blondie Greatest Hits. It's not quiet and it's not in any way well done even in the confines of what is possible with a record. This is the largest number of purchases I see. I get one in a million who ask me about something more serious or even thinks about mid-priced turntable and cartridge.

A friend, record shop owner from England, when I asked, said the cartridge is what the turntable came with, he doesn't know what it is specifically.

The pinnacle of what a record can do doesn't account for one in thousand of what is being sold. So, the pinnacle of what a record can do is NOT an answer to the OP's question.

 

[Robin L]

Another thing I noticed in all types of conversations that compare records to CDs or digital files is that it's always bringing out the absolute best a record ever achieved (which is not much, of course),
The pinnacle of what a record can do doesn't account for one in thousand of what is being sold. So, the pinnacle of what a record can do is NOT an answer to the OP's question.

Exactly.

The local LP retailer that sells the most new vinyl never cracks open the new releases when they arrive. They display the record jacket, sealed with the LP within, and plays the stream off of Tidal. That's the current economics - they can't afford to open up a record that retails for $30 or so, they aren't sent a promo. I don't hear any of the customers at Rainy Day Records complaining.

BTW, a lot of the new, sealed LPs are reissues that go for real money. Nick Drake's LPs, all very short in length, go for $30 a pop. I remember getting the "Fruit Tree" box at Amoeba's about 35 years ago for $15, used. That was a typical price for a used set of LPs at the time. Ebay has used copies now for over $300.00.

 

[Thomas_A]

It is interesting that the sound from vinyl records still can give suprises despite its ancient technology. And with the fact that the best hardware no longer is produced. I’ll give some more short rips soon of 50 year old tecordings…