Blizzard's new Super Stream

[March Audio]

Please don't ask. You could get an answer!

No, we just get the usual nebulous noise.

 

[leobloom]

No, we just get the usual nebulous noise.

We need data nothing else.

 

[NorthSky]

I'd say we need way more than just data.

 

[ceedee]

I'd say we need way more than just data.

Well let's at least start with some. Rather than fear of everything that could possibly go wrong, even though we don't understand how it works …

 

[leobloom]

I'd say we need way more than just data.

We have the engineer driving the train. Data is first and all important. We cannot hear bits. Let's see blind tests. Where is the manufacture of this product, why is he not here?

 

[NorthSky]

Mike is not here because everyone has his own idea, and they all think that their idea is the best.
Forums are like that sometimes; it's part of human nature...a learning curve about civilization.
The road to knowledge is very limited by narrow edges.

Mike should be here, as anyone else. Personal matters shouldn't interfere with other members' road to learning.
You put your differences outside the door, and you live and let live. You treat others like you would like to be treated.
I've seen so much hatred here towards Mike that it makes me sick in my stomach and I want to throw up a little.

What kind of audio science is that!

 

[leobloom]

Mike is not here because everyone has his own idea, and they all think that their idea is the best.
Forums are like that sometimes; it's part of human nature...a learning curve about civilization.
The road to knowledge is very limited by narrow edges.

Mike should be here, as anyone else. Personal matters shouldn't interfere with other members' road to learning.
You put your differences outside the door, and you live and let live. You treat others like you would like to be treated.
I've seen so much hatred here towards Mike that it makes me sick in my stomach and I want to throw up a little.

What kind of audio science is that!

So this place is uncivilized? What did he do to them?

 

[ceedee]

Mike should be here, as anyone else. Personal matters shouldn't interfere with other members' road to learning.
You put your differences outside the door, and you live and let live. You treat others like you would like to be treated.
I've seen so much hatred here towards Mike that it makes me sick in my stomach and I want to throw up a little.

What kind of audio science is that!

I didn't notice any hatred towards Mike, but maybe I missed it. I certainly don't have any towards him. I saw members, myself included, asking him for measurements when he made claims about the product he was selling. There's plenty of latitude given here to members' subjective opinions IMO. But what were we supposed to be "learning" from this thread? That our lowly MacBooks and Thinkpads aren't suitable for audio playback? I would hope a forum focused on science wouldn't accept that without evidence.

It's disappointing to me because I expected the designers and engineers in the industry would be the ones taking the lead in the scientific discussion.

 

[fas42]

My answers are considered "nebulous" because I focus on the required result, rather than a specific area of performance, measurable in some straightforward way. Let's consider an passenger aircraft as an analogy - its function, why a huge amount of money was paid to have it built for someone, is to transport people from one place to another safely and comfortably, on a regular basis. Everything else about its, measurable, performance is secondary - the primary function is not measured, except in terms of surveys and statistics - if there was a direct correlation between, say, the maximum speed of plane, or fuel consumption in cruise mode, and the primary function that would be great! ... but, there isn't.

Every playback system is always defective in some manner, it is not performing its primary function as well as it could - reproducing the recording with no contribution from the playback mechanism audible. The reasons why will be different for every single system - and, this is not measurable, by any simple procedure ...

 

[NorthSky]

Frank, you should design a new DAC and get it measured by a professional Stereophile audio writer.

 

[fas42]

Frank, you should design a new DAC and get it measured by a professional Stereophile audio writer.
Mike is a designer but with no measurements not many here give him a chance. One day...he'll make that mark...of being recognized for his sound quality products, one day... If only they could sell measurement tools for younger generation of audio designers with young families.

Bob, that will the last thing I will ever do, ... what I might do, is develop measurement tools that tell me what's really going on, ... I'm a lazy bugger, bit worn out from all that life thrashing around, I need a good jolt of motivation to make things happen these days ... .

 

[March Audio]

My answers are considered "nebulous" because I focus on the required result, rather than a specific area of performance, measurable in some straightforward way. Let's consider an passenger aircraft as an analogy - its function, why a huge amount of money was paid to have it built for someone, is to transport people from one place to another safely and comfortably, on a regular basis. Everything else about its, measurable, performance is secondary - the primary function is not measured, except in terms of surveys and statistics - if there was a direct correlation between, say, the maximum speed of plane, or fuel consumption in cruise mode, and the primary function that would be great! ... but, there isn't.

Every playback system is always defective in some manner, it is not performing its primary function as well as it could - reproducing the recording with no contribution from the playback mechanism audible. The reasons why will be different for every single system - and, this is not measurable, by any simple procedure ...

Frank the problem is that there is no evidence of any "result", just your ramblings about undefined "artefacts" and undefined "tuning" curing undefined "defects" in undefined ways. It's really tedious. It contributes nothing, it's just noise.

 

[March Audio]

I didn't notice any hatred towards Mike, but maybe I missed it. I certainly don't have any towards him. I saw members, myself included, asking him for measurements when he made claims about the product he was selling. There's plenty of latitude given here to members' subjective opinions IMO. But what were we supposed to be "learning" from this thread? That our lowly MacBooks and Thinkpads aren't suitable for audio playback? I would hope a forum focused on science wouldn't accept that without evidence.

It's disappointing to me because I expected the designers and engineers in the industry would be the ones taking the lead in the scientific discussion.

This.

 

[March Audio]

BoB, what I might do, is develop measurement tools that tell me what's really going on

Now that really is the last thing you will do.

 

[fas42]

Frank the problem is that there is no evidence of any "result", just your ramblings about undefined "artefacts" and undefined "tuning" curing undefined "defects" in undefined ways. It's really tedious. It contributes nothing, it's just noise.

I've specified very precisely what my results are, in terms of auditory behaviour; those "undefined artifacts" lie in that world where many "objectivists", having achieved "adequate" technical performance, like one system, but not another. "Like" is the ultimate audio weasel word, it's also "just noise", ... the value starts when the listener learns to be able to articulate what he is reacting to.

I do note that many people religiously ignore me when I state precisely what I do, and define precisely what the defects are - no shiny, expensive instruments were involved, therefore zero credibility . I would hate for these people to be in charge of getting the design of a new car to a final state, to be attractive to a potential customer ...

 

[NorthSky]

We have the engineer driving the train. Data is first and all important. We cannot hear bits. Let's see blind tests. Where is the manufacture of this product, why is he not here?

Mike has been blocked from posting, not banned...but blocked (same end result in my book).
→ http://www.miveraaudio.com/

♦ http://www.miveraaudio.com/#!mivera-audio-forum/ycs0u/?great dacs to use with the .Superstream.

The SuperStream is relatively a brand new product; the data and blind tests and measurements will come; he's working on it...

This is not the end of the world; life is still great still on this beautiful blue planet.
________

@Frank; I'm pretty much the same. I need to be inspired intellectually to have advancing discussions with all people from all life's venues.
Every single day of our life is in the pursuit on mankind's discovery of happiness...quality sound and picture from the best messages, stories of our lives. ...And learning about our surroundings.
Any bias, any judgement, any tumult against peace, any bifurcation outside the path of the truth and the righteous and I'm unsecured.
And when I'm unsecured I am not 100% fully happy. When others are unsecured I am not fully happy. Life's more fun when everyone's having fun together.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Mike is not here because everyone has his own idea, and they all think that their idea is the best.
Forums are like that sometimes; it's part of human nature...a learning curve about civilization.
The road to knowledge is very limited by narrow edges.

Mike should be here, as anyone else. Personal matters shouldn't interfere with other members' road to learning.
You put your differences outside the door, and you live and let live. You treat others like you would like to be treated.
I've seen so much hatred here towards Mike that it makes me sick in my stomach and I want to throw up a little.

What kind of audio science is that!

I don't hate Mike. I don't even know Mike. I just wish he'd show some game. He turns as many threads as possible into Mike promotions, makes performance claims directly and through implication, and when he's asked for anything to back that up, he fades into the background, only to pop back up at the next opportunity. Hate? Too strong an emotion. I'll save that for, I dunno, apartheid or something. Respect? I'll be saving that as well.

Tim

 

[NorthSky]

Tim, I'm a nobody. I just read posts from you guys here and there; that's all what I have to go by.
Ok, not "hatred", something else...something not too peaceful or gracious. ...Something almost personal.
I don't know...it just doesn't have good vibes. ...Like a bad tune (song) about the fires in hell.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim, I'm a nobody. I just read posts from you guys here and there; that's all what I have to go by.
Ok, not "hatred", something else...something not too peaceful or gracious. ...Something almost personal.
I don't know...it just doesn't have good vibes. ...Like a bad tune (song) about the fires in hell.

Yep. When a guy comes on a science forum pushing a product with claims of superiority he completely fails to back up with any substance, and then he turns all snarky when he's asked for evidence, much less proof, that generates some bad vibes.

Tim

 

[NorthSky]

I don't know Tim; I don't have the same vision as few others I guess. ...Or the same way in reacting.
I'm sure everyone has an opinion and it's the right one.

Nonetheless, we are here now, and we try our best to live with each other. ...Every single day, one after the other, day in day out, each different from the last.
Perhaps we are just too harsh sometimes and less sensitive?