Best way to bi-amp?

[fpitas]

I’d say, just be content with what you have. No way you’ll improve on anything by bi-amping or making the speaker active on your own. It will be a massive waste of time and money and will only end in disappointment.

Or, you'll learn reams of acoustics, physics and electronics, and thumb your nose at us. Your choice

 

[gene_stl]

Multi Amping is TOTALLY wonderful, but one does need to read up on it. The crossovers speakers waste a tremendous amount of your amp power and connecting directly to the amp controls the voice coils, mo bettah. It isn't exactly for beginners. You have to be careful. You can put a fuse in series with your tweeter in addition to a blocking capacitor (or two , in series on either side of the voice coil , double the calculated value).

 

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

What amp are you currently using with these?

Well, I have an Apollon dual mono but considered using a 60wpc tube amp for the highs...brb I smell smoke.

I’d say, just be content with what you have. No way you’ll improve on anything by bi-amping or making the speaker active on your own. It will be a massive waste of time and money and will only end in disappointment.

The problem is I am not happy with the volume levels. Everything just shouts too much when I turn things up to where I want the bass to be. You should see the EQ on my phone just to get the volume level I want. I am only using my phone until I improve a few system changes but I figured that if I am going to wait maybe I could just bi-amp to enjoy the speakers for a few weeks until I get the room treatment I want done and can tackle other system issues.

 

[voodooless]

You don’t need more amps… you may just need more power… or something else…

You should see the EQ on my phone just to get the volume level I want.

Yes we should!

What have you hooked up to it now? An amp is not an EQ device. It sounds like you want something completely different.

Can you describe in more detail what your goal is and why the current setup does not conform to this goal?

 

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

You don’t need more amps… you may just need more power… or something else…


Yes we should!

What have you hooked up to it now? An amp is not an EQ device. It sounds like you want something completely different.

Can you describe in more detail what your goal is and why the current setup does not conform to this goal?

As stated, I am using an Apollon dual mono (based off the NC500 hypex module.) It has great control over the lower end compared to the 60wpc tube amp that I was considering bi-amping with. The higher frequency range is not quite as shout-y with the tube amp but I dont get the low end performance from it, so I figured, why not just plug em both up and explode? An idea that I recently heard and liked was taking some measurements and getting a convolution filter made by a pro. Thats at least a few weeks out, hell, the rock wool sound insulation isnt even in a retail space within a hundred miles (I am going to do some sound treatment over some French doors.) So given that I will have to drive an hour and a half one way then back, just to buy some of the materials to get started, I figured that maybe I could bi-amp the speakers and see what that does.

Maybe most of this forum has completely different hearing than I do, but whenever I hear a half a song and am blown away... I cant help but want to chase that awesome feeling I was experiencing before experiencing panic and anxiety that forces me to turn them down. For anyone that does not grasp this aspect of music listening... its terrible....worse than being teased by your ultimate fantasy figure only to be left with blue ears in the end.

 

[LTig]

I think what you really need is a subwoofer.

 

[RDoc]

I have an old pair of Altec speakers (my father's) and the crossovers died, I suspect from bad caps.

I also have an old AVR with direct inputs to the power amps. So I rewired the speakers so I could drive the woofers and tweeters separately, added a limiting cap to the tweeters, got a miniDSP HD and used REW to both do the crossover and flatten the response using 4 of the amps from the AVR.

It made a huge difference both in measurements and our perception of the sound.

 

[fpitas]

I have an old pair of Altec speakers (my father's) and the crossovers died, I suspect from bad caps.

I also have an old AVR with direct inputs to the power amps. So I rewired the speakers so I could drive the woofers and tweeters separately, added a limiting cap to the tweeters, got a miniDSP HD and used REW to both do the crossover and flatten the response using 4 of the amps from the AVR.

It made a huge difference both in measurements and our perception of the sound.

The crossovers in old Altecs were not the best, even when in working order.

 

[Everett T]

Perlisten R7T

Don't touch your speakers, nothing more needs to be said or done about passive biamping or active biamping with regards to that series of speakers.

 

[Golfx]

You could bi amp if you had the right processor. The Trinnov could do that easily and then I could use a less powerful mono class D amp for the tweeters (instead of a NC1200 for both). But as suggested above if you need extra bass you could add a sub as well. Also, a different target curve might assist too.

 

[Chrispy]

If you're considering bi-amping as a solution to the sonic issue, assume you've already dealt with trying eq and placement/room solutions first?

 

[MAB]

Well, I have an Apollon dual mono but considered using a 60wpc tube amp for the highs...brb I smell smoke.

The problem is I am not happy with the volume levels. Everything just shouts too much when I turn things up to where I want the bass to be.

By your description, bi-amping your R7t's in the way you describe will not improve, likely degrade the sound. Especially not with that tube amp, that's a whole 'nother circle of confusion. If I am interpreting your description, you are running your amps out of power and clipping. Or you have some room or reflection or combing issue that is causing the 'shoutiness'. That 60 wpc tube amp will potentially make the power/clipping even worse if that is your problem. And will not help one bit with any room issues. And will not impart a dramatically different sonic signature to your tweeter. Taming the shoutiness of speakers with a tube amp is not effective, even less useful approach with your speakers.

What LTig said is likely true:

I think what you really need is a subwoofer.

You should see the EQ on my phone just to get the volume level I want. I am only using my phone until I improve a few system changes but I figured that if I am going to wait maybe I could just bi-amp to enjoy the speakers for a few weeks until I get the room treatment I want done and can tackle other system issues.

Perhaps you can share your EQ. Maybe even measurements of your system. It might help. Really, a pair of speakers like you have, plus an amp and a source can be made to sound fantastic in most rooms without acrobatics like bi-amping, tubes, and other tricks. And if they don't sound good to you, the tricks will just keep you spinning in circles trying to get the speakers to sound right.

 

[tjf]

"The problem is I am not happy with the volume levels. Everything just shouts too much when I turn things up to where I want the bass to be. You should see the EQ on my phone just to get the volume level I want."

Sounds like you should invest in a MiniDSP Flex or SHD and a subwoofer (so you get more/better bass without having to crank the volume up so high that the speakers "shout").

The Flex or SHD will allow you to "blend" the sub correctly with a HighPass xover to limit how low in the deep bass the Perlisten's go, and you can run Dirac room correction/EQ to get a cleaner "in-room" sound quality result.

It'll be a good learning experience for you -- if you can afford these equipment additions -- this is of course assuming you're not trolling this forum (sorry, had to ask, just in case you're not "for real" -- your various posts have that kind of vibe)

 

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

"The problem is I am not happy with the volume levels. Everything just shouts too much when I turn things up to where I want the bass to be. You should see the EQ on my phone just to get the volume level I want."

Sounds like you should invest in a MiniDSP Flex or SHD and a subwoofer (so you get more/better bass without having to crank the volume up so high that the speakers "shout").

The Flex or SHD will allow you to "blend" the sub correctly with a HighPass xover to limit how low in the deep bass the Perlisten's go, and you can run Dirac room correction/EQ to get a cleaner "in-room" sound quality result.

It'll be a good learning experience for you -- if you can afford these equipment additions -- this is of course assuming you're not trolling this forum (sorry, had to ask, just in case you're not "for real" -- your various posts have that kind of vibe)

I can assure you I am not a troll.. not even in the slightest have I ever been a troll. However, when I was a young netizen I wandered onto AOL all alone and got lost... from there I was orphaned and luckily some trolls found me and raised me as their own. I do NOT have troll genetics nor have I ever.. but being raised by them may have given way to me adopting their trollish behaviors! Anyhoot, I read first parts of how to get room measurements by Amir, but then it seems that the actual info on how to get measurements was not presented. I did think it would be cool to get a sub and x-over to where the sub takes on frequencies slightly higher than normal roll off of the R7T's. The reason why is I dont want to have those frequencies doubled up and played by both, and if the sub does more work load then I assumed I could turn it up and then get the R7T's to volume up where I like them. I have a Rhythmik sub, the lowest priced model they offer, but I think its duty in the bedroom with my bookies is more suited. For now I am going to work out room treatment for the room and get a better starting point as I currently have the speakers on a side wall playing into another side wall very shallow due to doors on both walls housing the longer depth of the room. I found around 80 to a hundred square feet of acoustic dampening material abandoned in a parking lot a few months ago. Im going to build some massive sound panels to plug in over top of some french doors, and get this, the hinges for these doors are highly magnetic. so I can throw some neodymium magnets with counter sunk holes onto the inside of the sound panel and have them to where they can pop in and out without altering the door frames. A genius idea I came up with all on my own!

 

[Everett T]

I can assure you I am not a troll.. not even in the slightest have I ever been a troll. However, when I was a young netizen I wandered onto AOL all alone and got lost... from there I was orphaned and luckily some trolls found me and raised me as their own. I do NOT have troll genetics nor have I ever.. but being raised by them may have given way to me adopting their trollish behaviors! Anyhoot, I read first parts of how to get room measurements by Amir, but then it seems that the actual info on how to get measurements was not presented. I did think it would be cool to get a sub and x-over to where the sub takes on frequencies slightly higher than normal roll off of the R7T's. The reason why is I dont want to have those frequencies doubled up and played by both, and if the sub does more work load then I assumed I could turn it up and then get the R7T's to volume up where I like them. I have a Rhythmik sub, the lowest priced model they offer, but I think its duty in the bedroom with my bookies is more suited. For now I am going to work out room treatment for the room and get a better starting point as I currently have the speakers on a side wall playing into another side wall very shallow due to doors on both walls housing the longer depth of the room. I found around 80 to a hundred square feet of acoustic dampening material abandoned in a parking lot a few months ago. Im going to build some massive sound panels to plug in over top of some french doors, and get this, the hinges for these doors are highly magnetic. so I can throw some neodymium magnets with counter sunk holes onto the inside of the sound panel and have them to where they can pop in and out without altering the door frames. A genius idea I came up with all on my own!

If you're running the R7ts as acoustic suspension (sealed), there's no reason not to run them full range, you'll only be down 12db at 16-20hz in room, they'll blend just fine.