Beginner-Advice: Buying Amp/DAC for KEF LS 50 + SVS SB-12 NSD

[kmplng]

Hello,

I like to get an advice from you.

The situation is that in the last two month I bought a pair of KEF LS50 All Black (~700€) and a SVS SB-12 NSD (~400 €). I'm really happy with it.

I have an IOTAVX SA3 as a loan. I like it so far but I have the feeling that the LS50 could do more with more power.

I just need digital inputs. I only use the audio system with my TV (and the stuff that is connected to it, Switch, Apple TV 4k) and in future perhaps with an DIY Streamer solution (Volumio). I need a Preamp/DAC with an IR remote that could select the individual inputs with one button tap or something that could be integrated with my Smart Home System (Home Assistant). I think DAC/Preamp with 12V Trigger would also be nice.

So the question is will I buy the SA3 + PA3 for ~ 800 € or will I change to something else? Budget is 1000 € for Amp/DAC/(Preamp). Could be cheaper if possible

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S252NC XLR (469 €) + Topping DX7s (449 €)?

SMSL Sanskrit 10th DAC (90€) + XTZ EDGE A2-300 (449 €)?

I'm open for more ideas or perhaps you think the SA3 + PA3 combo is best.

Thanks a lot
Jan

 

[daftcombo]

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S252NC XLR (469 €) + Topping DX7s (449 €)?

I have that NC252MP, it is great. But with your budget why not get a NC500MP instead, and buy a cheapo DAC (with volume control)? You would get the same sound quality but more speaker upgrade possibilities and lots of power.

LS50 sensitivity is low (85dB) and impedance is 8 ohm so you would be more confortable with at least 100 Watts of clean power at 8 ohm IMHO.

 

[kmplng]

I have that NC252MP, it is great. But with your budget why not get a NC500MP instead, and buy a cheapo DAC? You would get the same sound quality but more speaker upgrade possibilities and lots of power.

I don't think that I will upgrade the speakers anytime soon I see the NC500MP has RCA Inputs. Which cheapo DAC would you recommend?

I would also buy a Raspberry Pi DAC board if it has Hardware Volume controls and I could which Inputs with it.

 

[daftcombo]

I see the NC500MP has RCA Inputs.

RCA and XLR

Which cheapo DAC would you recommend?

With a remote, Topping DX3 Pro. It will be out of your budget though.

Edit: SMSL Sanskrit 10th DAC perfectly fine, also on Audiophonics and total with be just less than 1.000€.

 

[daftcombo]

Forget what I wrote, I didn't see you needed to feed a sub also.

 

[Ron Texas]

Topping DX3 Pro. It takes toslink, SPDIF and USB. It has a remote and a volume control. You need a volume control for the TV because toslink volume is not adjustable in the TV. Use an RCA split cable for the Sub. I have this setup and it works.

 

[Ron Texas]

I have that NC252MP, it is great. But with your budget why not get a NC500MP instead, and buy a cheapo DAC (with volume control)? You would get the same sound quality but more speaker upgrade possibilities and lots of power.

I'm using LS50's with a single Dynamo 1000W sub. In small to medium size rooms this combo is hard to beat. My room is 14'x18' opening into a 4'x15 hall way with a door at the end. Ceiling is a dormer, so average height is a bit less than 8'. Speakers and LP are a 7'4" triangle. Volume is adequate.

 

[kmplng]

I see it not that easy since the remotes all don't have individual buttons for source selection and a dedicated subwoofer out. :/

Would be great if I could buy something smarter as a DAC/Preamp that has this features or directly could be integrated in my smart home.


What do you think about the IOTAVX SA3+PA3 vs. something else for the LS50s?

 

[kmplng]

Forget what I wrote, I didn't see you needed to feed a sub also.

My sub has stereo line in and stereo line out and an additional High Pass Out.

 

[daftcombo]

My sub has stereo line in and stereo line out and an additional High Pass Out.

So I guess my proposal is ok. You go from DAC to sub line in. The sub is active right? Then you go out from the sub line out to a pre-amp (only if the line out has fixed level), and pre-amp to amp.

 

[Willem]

That IOTAVX SA3 is a bit anaemic for these speakers, but you do not mention room size. You also do not mention where you live (UK?). My first suggestion at this kind of budget would be a 100+ watts per channel at 8 Ohm Yamaha AS701 or 801 integrated, as these also have digital inputs and measure very well. Both have optical and coaxial inputs, the 801 has USB as well. The AS701 is 449 pounds at Richer Sounds and 549 euro from various EU vendors. These should leave a fair bit of budget for an Antimode 8033 dsp room eq unit that will clean up the subwoofer enormously. Alternatively you could use the surplus budget for a second sub for more headroom and a smoother response. Both these options address the room modes generated by the subwoofer. The difference will be very noticeable, and much more than any difference between amplifiers.
For switching between sources I use this automatic switch: https://www.tindie.com/products/beni_skate/automatic-spdif-opticalrca-audio-switch/
The Yamaha R-N803D is another option. It is a similar receiver but with more inputs and greater connectivity, and inbuilt room correction, but at a higher price but still within your budget.

 

[xr100]

LS50 sensitivity is low (85dB) and impedance is 8 ohm so you would be more confortable with at least 100 Watts of clean power at 8 ohm IMHO.

Re: 8 ohm -- see https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[daftcombo]

Re: 8 ohm -- see https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements

Somewhat optimistically specified at 8 ohms, the LS50's impedance (fig.1, solid trace) drops to 4 ohms at 200Hz and to 5.4 ohms at the top of the audioband. The electrical phase angle is generally mild, but the combination of 5.3 ohms and –41° at 135Hz, a frequency where music often has high energy, will make the speaker work at its best with a good, 4 ohm–rated amplifier.

It doesn't mean that the speakers will work better with a 4ohm-rated amp than with a 8ohm-rated amp (amps that work only under 4ohm or only under 8ohm must be rare these days).

It does mean that someone doesn't NEED a lot of power under 8 ohm, and that a lot of power under 4 ohm is sufficient. So yes, a NC252MP should be sufficient, but personaly, since prices for clean power are so low these days, if he can afford NC500MP, why not? Still under his budget and more future-proof than getting a few dB less of SINAD.

 

[xr100]

(amps that work only under 4ohm or only under 8ohm must be rare these days).

You've lost me there... unless you meant "over" or valve/tube amps with output transformers?

So yes, a NC252MP should be sufficient, but personaly, since prices for clean power are so low these days, if he can afford NC500MP, why not? Still under his budget and more future-proof than getting a few dB less of SINAD.

These or the Yamaha AS series amps that were suggested are both fine load-wise. The Yamahas do have a "4 ohm" setting which drops the power amp voltage rails but with ordinary use (c.f. stress testing into a 4 ohm resistive load) they can be kept on the "8 ohm" setting.

The big problem I can see is the crossover to sub. According to its manual:

"High Pass Outputs will send all frequencies above 80Hz with a -12 dB per octave slope to the power amplifier for your speakers."

Blocking up the LS50's ports would at least mean the speakers themselves are acoustically (notionally at least, ignoring the room) -12dB/oct LF rolloff.

 

[daftcombo]

You've lost me there... unless you meant "over" or valve/tube amps with output transformers?

Yes, sorry, my english was probably incorrect. I meant "at".

 

[Willem]

With respect to the Yamaha AS series and subwoofers, there is of course no issue if you connect the subwoofer(s) at high level and play the main speakers and amp at full range.

 

[kmplng]

Thank you all for your help.

Perhaps I should just start smaller. I would buy what I need to drive the LS50s at an adequate volume and quality and then build up. The stuff I change would build a second system for the bedroom.

What would you think about an Argon Audio SA 1 (329 €) (same device as NAD AMP1 minus Chromecast) (has DAC, IR Remote, PreOut for Sub/PowerAmp) so I could perhaps later upgrade to an Hypex Ncore oder Purifi and next step change to another DAC/Preamp.

or NAD D 3045 -> adds Headphone, 12V Trigger, HDMI ARC, USB-DAC… (699 €)

 

[audiophile]

As a KEF LS50 owner, here's my advice: you can't go wrong with an amp that can provide 100w into 8 Ohm and 200w into 4 Ohm load.
Do not buy NAD D3020 - this was my initial choice based on raving reviews in Stereophile. This amp wasn't able to double its power when KEFs' impedance dropped, resulting in weak bass and distorted highs.

 

[Dialectic]

As a KEF LS50 owner, here's my advice: you can't go wrong with an amp that can provide 100w into 8 Ohm and 200w into 4 Ohm load.
Do not buy NAD D3020 - this was my initial choice based on raving reviews in Stereophile. This amp wasn't able to double its power when KEFs' impedance dropped, resulting in weak bass and distorted highs.

I'm using a Devialet 120 with this exact speaker/sub combo. It's an older model, so you may be able to pick one up cheap, and the Devialet has some helpful options for sub integration.

 

[zjx1017]

Thank you all for your help.

Perhaps I should just start smaller. I would buy what I need to drive the LS50s at an adequate volume and quality and then build up. The stuff I change would build a second system for the bedroom.

What would you think about an Argon Audio SA 1 (329 €) (same device as NAD AMP1 minus Chromecast) (has DAC, IR Remote, PreOut for Sub/PowerAmp) so I could perhaps later upgrade to an Hypex Ncore oder Purifi and next step change to another DAC/Preamp.

or NAD D 3045 -> adds Headphone, 12V Trigger, HDMI ARC, USB-DAC… (699 €)

Argon SA1 is very interesting,has identical appearance and similar specs with NAD amp1. probably all danish design.i wonder how it sounds