B&W 801 Matrix amp recommendations

[Old&intheWay]

I'm considering the Crown XLS 2002 or 2502 for a two-channel setup. I have B&W 801 Matrix Series 2 speakers now (sensitivity 87dB, power handling is 50-600w into 8 ohm).
I've had the speakers 20 years and I've tried various home audio amplifiers with them. They actually sounded the best (to me) with a Crown XLi3500 (normally used for a pair of SVS 16-41 passive subwoofers in a HT setup). It would be paired with either a Morrison ELAD or a Denon PRA 1100 preamp. I only play CDs or vinyl on this system.

 

[restorer-john]

If you liked the Crowns before, you may like them again. You sure get a ton of power for the money.

You really have an enormous choice of power amplifiers to choose from. Your Denon PRA-1100 preamplifier is an excellent performer- I wouldn't be changing that.

If it were me, I'd be hunting down a big classic power amp like a small Krell, an Adcom GFA-555mk2, a big Perreaux 2150B/3150B/5150 or a classic big McIntosh.

But around here, it'll be 5 seconds before someone chimes in telling you to buy a Hypex or Purifi screwed into a case.

I think we have a member or two with the same speakers. Might pay to do a search and contact them.

 

[dortreo]

Not quite 5 seconds later, but 56 minutes instead. I have B&W 801 S2s and am now using them with March Audio P701s (Hypex NC1200 based). I was using them prior with a BAT VK-500 Class A amp, which also served as a source of radiant heat for the house. The March Audios make a fine combo with the B&Ws.

 

[watchnerd]

Are the 801s especially hard to drive?

The sensitivity is average, as is the rated impedance....

Seems like you could use lots and lots of different amps just fine.

 

[audiopile]

The only conversation I ever had with John Bowers was on the subject of American hi-Fi buying preference and how (at the time) US buyers would spend money on speakers - but would cheap out on amps (mega-monster Japanese receivers at the time). His more expensive speakers had some pretty vicious impedance curves that required usually big gutsy SS amps. Result was unhappy customers. His response was "But that doesn't make sense?". Couldn't agree with him more -but real world-that was what happened. These are some of my favorite speakers of all time - but don't be afraid to experiment with amps until you get something that makes these sing. I use the Crown XLS amps in commercial sound and really like them - not sure they will be the best choice for 801 Matrix.

 

[Doodski]

Are the 801s especially hard to drive?

The sensitivity is average, as is the rated impedance....

Seems like you could use lots and lots of different amps just fine.

Yes, they gobble up power. Been there done that with 801 Matrix.

 

[watchnerd]

Yes, they gobble up power. Been there done that with 801 Matrix.

Volts or current?

If they have a vicious curve, I can see them needing lots of current, but when it comes to volts, they're more sensitive than my current (2018 model) Dynaudios.

 

[Doodski]

Volts or current?

If they have a vicious curve, I can see them needing lots of current, but when it comes to volts, they're more sensitive than my current (2018 model) Dynaudios.

Don't know exactly what their deal is. That woofer is pretty damped and big. I like the way they sound. We had them as demo speakers when they where a current model and they would soak up whatever power we could throw at them with 200 watt/ch amp(s). I would recommend the biggest amp one can afford for them from that experience.

 

[March Audio]

The Crowns do give a lot of power for the price but their performance simply isnt up to "hifi" standards.

Amir tested the xli800 here

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/crown-xli-800-power-amplifier-review.9420/

Plus the fact that they have 2 great big fans in the back would be an instant rejection from me. Even Crown say "They are suited for musicians, DJs, and entertainers as well as houses of worship, discos, and pubs." and I would entirely agree thats where they should remain. So whatever you buy dont get the Crown.


If this is the correct model yes its a challenging load with a lot of the area where the music power is concentrated being at 3 to 4 ohms. Plus large phase angle swings.

Fig.1 B&W 801, electrical impedance (solid) and phase (dashed) (2 ohms/vertical div.).

 

[Doodski]

@March Audio the Nautilus 801 is a different model. Here is a Stereophile review with the Matrix 801 Series 2 a very close version of the 801.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-matrix-801-series-2-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[watchnerd]

@March Audio the Nautilus 801 is a different model. Here is a Stereophile review with the Matrix 801 Series 2 a very close version of the 801.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-matrix-801-series-2-loudspeaker-measurements
View attachment 80725

Not that low ohms at the lowest, but lots of phase changes.

In comparison, my lower sensitivity Contour 20 dip even lower at the minimum, but the angles aren't as bad:

But I don't think that B&W 801 looks like a "difficult" load for modern amps.

Maybe back in the day it was hard....

 

[March Audio]

@March Audio the Nautilus 801 is a different model. Here is a Stereophile review with the Matrix 801 Series 2 a very close version of the 801.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-matrix-801-series-2-loudspeaker-measurements
View attachment 80725

Thanks, thats not particularly challenging. At 87dB/w/m its easy choice - Purifi based amp. (our P451 ), although due to the relatively high impedance you might want a higher voltage swing which means Hypex NC1200 based (our P701) if you want more dynamics.

 

[Doodski]

But I don't think that B&W 801 looks like a "difficult" load for modern amps.

Maybe back in the day it was hard....

We where using the Luxman M-03, 200w/ch and the Yamaha M-85, 260w/ch.
The Luxman baked a woofer and the Yamaha seemed to do better.

 

[Old&intheWay]

If you liked the Crowns before, you may like them again. You sure get a ton of power for the money.

You really have an enormous choice of power amplifiers to choose from. Your Denon PRA-1100 preamplifier is an excellent performer- I wouldn't be changing that.

If it were me, I'd be hunting down a big classic power amp like a small Krell, an Adcom GFA-555mk2, a big Perreaux 2150B/3150B/5150 or a classic big McIntosh.

But around here, it'll be 5 seconds before someone chimes in telling you to buy a Hypex or Purifi screwed into a case.

I think we have a member or two with the same speakers. Might pay to do a search and contact them.

The previous owner was using a pair of Krell KMA-200 monoblocks (I purchased the B&W's in 2001). He'd paid several hundred dollars for interconnects and speaker wire. He wasn't too impressed when I told him I use outdoor low voltage lighting cable for speaker wire.

 

[Old&intheWay]

Don't know exactly what their deal is. That woofer is pretty damped and big. I like the way they sound. We had them as demo speakers when they where a current model and they would soak up whatever power we could throw at them with 200 watt/ch amp(s). I would recommend the biggest amp one can afford for them from that experience.

My career background is in civil engineering, so I'm not going to pretend like I know that much about audio equipment. I was curious about the power handling specs (50-600 watts) for them, that seems like a broad range. I have an Outlaw Audio 755 (5-channel/200w @ 8 ohms), I tried a passive biamp setup with the B&Ws. It sounded good, but I can't say it sounded any better than the Crown pro audio amp. That wasn't A/B blind testing.

 

[audiopile]

My general rule of thumb for driving Matrix 801's back then was if you could lift the amp easily (not appropriate) -if it took two of ya to move the amp -better chance it would sing thru the 801's. I had always prefered the bass performance of Magnipan's over all other speakers up until that point -the 801's could sound pretty flabby with low current amps -but put a amp that could double down as the impedance dropped right thru 2 ohms and the Matrix 801 had power and extension that Magnipans of that era couldn't get to. 50 watt real Class A amps could drive 801's -monster amps that ran pretty deeply into A bias before switching to B could do it as well. Of course back then "...digital" amps pretty much didn't exist for audio use.I sold off all my high powered A/AB amps last year after getting thoroughly hooked on Meridian DSP-5000 self powered speakers. I held onto Wyred for Sound power amps - but never tried these on older 801 's ?

 

[vassilis]

I own an 801 S3 version. I do not know the upgrades done from S2, however, I use an Ypsilon Phaethon integrated (110W/ch) and are driven very well. you can achieve high volume in a medium room (50 sqm) All metrics check. I have also used a Vitus SS 101 amplifier with excellent results as well. A great speaker. Can compare with most of today's high-end. A keeper for sure.

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

My bi-amp'd 801-II's using a) for the bass driver a Parasound HCA-2003 (Continuous Power Output > 200 watts RMS, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, all channels driven > 300 watts RMS x 3, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, all channels driven, Current Capacity 60 amperes peak, Dynamiic Headroom > 2 dB) AND b) for the mid/tweeter a heavily Pooge Mod'd Hafler DH-200 (Continuous Power Output > 115-ish RMS, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω shown below) performs well. But as things are relative, I do not have A-B experience with any of the other many amps mentioned thus far in this thread (e.g. Crown, Krell, Adcom, Perreaux...et al). The moral? I wouldn't take any single person's viewpoint on this matter unless they'd conducted direct A-B listening tests. Besides, one person's opinion on "bass performance", taughtness, clarity, loudness levels, room interaction effects...ad infinitum... are solely their subjective experience.

 

[kaaos]

I had B&W 801 Matrix Series II, back in late 80's when they were just released, they were my first serious speakers. At that time I use to run them with Audio Innovations Series 500 amplifier (push-pull tube amp with 25W of pure class A power). I thought that was a very nice match at that time... hahaha. Had to sell them few years later as I was moving around the world for a while.

Since then I spent most of the time with full horn system (Altec) with SET amps (45), and also with d-class amp with Boenicke speakers.
I tried few d-class amps (Hypex, Pascal and Anaview) and to my ears the Anaview AMS1000 (2x170W 8ohms) sounded the best.

Last year I bought again B&W 801 Matrix Series II (in good condition and I installed a set of new crossovers) and for some time I was running it with d-class amp (Anaview AMS1000). I always had an itch to try Classe amp which is generally recommended for B&W 801 speakers so just few months ago I bought Classe CA-2200 amp. Wow, just wow... to me Classe CA-2200 amp is far better match than d-class for 801s. But I mean so dramatically better that I never had a desire to put d-class back in system... and now I have the best sound I ever had from my stereo system, and I've been in this hobby for last 35 years.

If you have a pair of B&W 801 Matrix speakers I would highly recommend Classe Delta amps (CA2200/CA2300 or CA monos). If you value balanced and neutral/natural sound than this combo is the answer. If this combo is good enough for Abbey Road recording studios than I guess it would be good for me too hahaha.

The one thing that I highly recommend you do to B&W801 speakers is to place them on Townshend Seismic Isolation Bars. This is the best way to decouple speakers from the room and your 801s will have bass like you never heard from them before... clean, deep, strong and very tight/controlled bass.