Anyone seen these "Aimpire" Topping Copies/Fakes?

[L5730]

There is a nice way for Topping to come out from all this: designing the S - or PRO, version of the D10! Thus keeping the technical lead over the competition.
I'll be for sure one of their 1st customer for a D10 updated version!

They do, it's called the D50s

 

[L5730]

Well this is just strange...
https://www.wish.com/product/aimpir...726a4f1aa2b013891a29fa?&hide_login_modal=true

https://vipoutlet.com/product/aimpi...eadphone-amplifier-silver/?PageSpeed=noscript

Both list Aimpire as the product but show Topping items.

 

[JohnYang1997]

You keep speaking with conjecture, that it's not possible for it to use the same components. Surely by now, Topping has gotten hold of one to figure out what it is and how it performs, to assess the potential damage that it could have on the market.

Although I do understand that Topping would not want to confirm that the design and the hardware is the same/uses comparable components. On the other hand, if it uses cheap components or the design is different, seems beneficial from a marketing perspective to say so rather than speaking speculatively. But of course, there might be legal reasons why Topping doesn't want to speak about that either.

You guys are so shallow. Smh. If you go against them, they will copy more of your products and perhaps destroy you through other methods. For a company that designs product you don't spend energy on stuff like this.

People in the west always complicate things that are super simple and do not understand the complication of other things. Just stop. Unless you actually design stuff, sell stuff and had experienced the atmosphere the society in China, you will never know what's going on. We moved on and put our bets on better, newer, more competitive products.

 

[fieldcar]

I got one and returned it. My biggest issue is the lack of support or any warranty whatsoever. It sounded decent enough, and if this counterfeit was half the price, I would have kept it. I just ended up buying it on drop for 65. If anyone wants to see a ton of high Rez photos of the aimpire on the inside, let me know.

 

[3font]

Just got one sold directly by Amazon.com Services LLC, after ordering a Topping D10 (thanks Amazon). Felt adventurous, so I opened it and connected it to my computer and this is what I got:

So either:
1) it's an independently made fake but Aimpire admires Topping so much that they're calling their product Topping D10 in their firmware
2) it might be the real thing, just somehow with a different case & PCB board that doesn't have the Topping branding?
or somewhere in between..

 

[JohnYang1997]

Just got one sold directly by Amazon.com Services LLC. Felt adventurous, so I opened it and connected it to my computer and this is what I got:
View attachment 47012
So either:
1) it's an independently made fake but Aimpire admires Topping so much that they're calling their product Topping D10 in their firmware
2) it might be the real thing, just somehow with a different case & PCB board that doesn't have the Topping branding?
or somewhere in between..

First one. They hired people reverse engineer the product and made it close enough to sell as topping d10 while doesn't show topping in the front.

 

[Veri]

Just got one sold directly by Amazon.com Services LLC, after ordering a Topping D10 (thanks Amazon). Felt adventurous, so I opened it and connected it to my computer and this is what I got:
View attachment 47012
So either:
1) it's an independently made fake but Aimpire admires Topping so much that they're calling their product Topping D10 in their firmware
2) it might be the real thing, just somehow with a different case & PCB board that doesn't have the Topping branding?
or somewhere in between..

It's just Manufacturer 'ID' flag. With some reverse engineering you could put anything there. Heck you could put 'AudioScienceReview' as id

 

[ElNino]

Just got one sold directly by Amazon.com Services LLC, after ordering a Topping D10 (thanks Amazon). Felt adventurous, so I opened it and connected it to my computer and this is what I got:
View attachment 47012
So either:
1) it's an independently made fake but Aimpire admires Topping so much that they're calling their product Topping D10 in their firmware
2) it might be the real thing, just somehow with a different case & PCB board that doesn't have the Topping branding?
or somewhere in between..

I wonder if this might indicate that Aimpire is using a copy of Topping's firmware?

 

[Krunok]

Board in Aimpire device is idenical to the original D10 board which means it has probably been produced in the same factory and according to the same specs as original D10. As it is identical it accepts D10 firmware and hence represents itself as D10, as @3font shown in his post.

 

[ElNino]

Board in Aimpire device is idenical to the original D10 board which means it has probably been produced in the same factory and according to the same specs as original D10. As it is identical it accepts D10 firmware and hence represents itself as D10, as @3font shown in his post.



View attachment 47084

View attachment 47085

It looks to me like they're using a cheaper pulse transformer (the square box close to the yellow connector).

 

[Krunok]

It looks to me like they're using a cheaper pulse transformer (the square box close to the yellow connector).

Maybe, but that is really hard to say by looking at the pic.

The most astonishing thing for me here is a fact that Chinese copycats are canibals - they steal from their own as well.

 

[Veri]

It looks to me like they're using a cheaper pulse transformer (the square box close to the yellow connector).

The DX7 series uses the same type of transformer though. Wouldn't say this is a problem.

 

[ElNino]

There are some other subtle differences between the boards as well -- for example, the AIMPIRE has fill in the test points. (Wouldn't make a functional difference.)

 

[Krunok]

There are some other subtle differences between the boards as well -- for example, the AIMPIRE has fill in the test points. (Wouldn't make a functional difference.)

Very often such copies don't contain parts of the same quality as original so I would expect the copy to measure worse than original. How worse is of course hard to say without mesaurement. But even if you measure such copy you are never sure they will keep putting the same parts in each series.

In other words, buying such product is a bad idea not only from ethical but also from a techinal perspective as well.

 

[raistlin65]

Maybe, but that is really hard to say by looking at the pic.

The most astonishing thing for me here is a fact that Chinese copycats are canibals - they steal from their own as well.

But that might not be accurate. We just don't have enough information. Sometimes the vendor is the original designer with Chinese products like this.

Other times, the factory is the true designer of the product, whether they came up with it on their own and sold it to the vendor or were hired to do the design based on some kind of specs from the vendor. In the latter two cases, I would consider the factory the true OEM from a design and engineering standpoint, not the company that sells them first at retail. I wouldn't call that "copycatting."

We just don't know. And likely never will.

 

[Krunok]

But that might not be accurate. We just don't have enough information. Sometimes the vendor is the original designer with Chinese products like this.

Other times, the factory is the true designer of the product, whether they came up with it on their own and sold it to the vendor or were hired to do the design based on some kind of specs from the vendor. In the latter two cases, I would consider the factory the true OEM from a design and engineering standpoint, not the company that sells them first at retail. I wouldn't call that "copycatting."

We just don't know. And likely never will.

As this product is produced without permission of Topping, who si holder of authoring rights as they did the developing, this indeed should not be called "copycatting" but stealing.

 

[raistlin65]

As this product is produced without permission of Topping, who si holder of authoring rights as they did the developing, this indeed should not be called "copycatting" but stealing.

How do you know that Topping "developed" the product? Reread what you quoted of me.

How do you know that Topping holds the IP rights? Has Topping announced that they hold the patent? We've seen this before in audio where the factory was the designer, the OEM, and would release other branded versions of the same product. It's not "stealing" if the factory has the right to do so.

So who knows? I don't. Why jump to conclusions?

 

[Krunok]

How do you know that Topping "developed" the product? Reread what you quoted of me.

How do you know that Topping holds the IP rights? Has Topping announced that they hold the patent? We've seen this before in audio where the factory was the designer, the OEM, and would release other branded versions of the same product. It's not "stealing" if the factory has the right to do so.

So who knows? I don't. Why jump to conclusions?

I was in contact with D10 designer so I'm very sure Topping D10 was developed by Topping.

 

[anotherAlexNYC]

Here is another Topping vs Aimpire incident. In November of last year, I ordered the Topping mini component rack from Amazon.com (AIMPIRE was the seller):

Topping Acrylic Rack

I received a Topping rack in branded retail packaging. The packaging was perfect with foam and cutouts for all of the parts (the plexiglass shelves, the metal columns, all the feet, etc.). A week ago, I ordered another one because I wanted to add another shelf to the rack. Again, seller was AIMPIRE with Amazon as the shipper. I received a small, unbranded cardboard box with zero packing materials inside. Just the plexiglass shelves taped together and the metal pieces in individual plastic bags. In the first shipment, one of the shelves had a Topping logo etched into it. The new shelves did not have any such etching. In addition, the two racks are incompatible. The new metals posts use a larger diameter threaded screw and the new shelves have a larger diameter opening. The finish on the new new metal pieces are close, but slightly different texture and not as shiny.

Since I wanted to join two identical sets, I ordered an additional set from Amazon with this time Amazon also being the seller. I got an identical unbranded brown box, but this time with all the metal pieces missing from it. Just the acrylic shelves. I have now requested a replacement for this latest shipment.

Chances are I will get another potential knock off in a cheap brown box. I appreciate that this is a metal and plastic shelf and isn't as much of an issue as something like a knock off D10. The build quality is ok and will be functional for my purposes, but wondering if I should just return all of it to Amazon and get it elsewhere as it appears that I can't be confident about getting a genuine product.

 

[raistlin65]

I was in contact with D10 designer so I'm very sure Topping D10 was developed by Topping.

If Topping says they designed it, that's good to know.

Otherwise, audio companies are more than happy to let consumers think they are the designers. For example, Emotiva amps were designed by Tonewinner. And later their Airmotiv Pro speakers turned out to be a slight redesign of a speaker already produced by a Chinese factory. I'm not saying this in any way diminishes the quality of the product, but rather to make the point that audio vendors love to allow consumers to think themselves the designers of Chinese manufactured products when they may not be.