Alec Baldwin shooting: Lawyer suggests potential sabotage on ‘Rust’ set.

[Doodski]

With respect to the unfortunate people involved in this tragedy. Is it a horrible random accident or a intentional murder by some nefarious deviant?

 

[sarumbear]

It is very sad but if you cut corners and use real guns instead of special ones made for filming this is a possible scenario. There are special guns that are manufactured with non-standard bores solely for filming. This stops live ammunition to load. They are however more expensive than standard guns. This production was tainted with cost-cutting from the beginning. I blame the producers, Alec Baldwin is one of them.

 

[Doodski]

There are special guns that are manufactured with non-standard bores solely for filming. This stops live ammunition to load. They are however more expensive than standard guns.

There are so many models of firearms and the film industry uses so many of those that it would create a entire industry to support replica use. I think somebody did the switcheeroo and intentionally caused this shooting.

 

[Inner Space]

I think somebody did the switcheeroo and intentionally caused this shooting.

I doubt it. It was a cheapskate production, with a non-union crew, miles from anywhere, with lots of boring downtime. I guarantee we'll find the crew was amusing themselves by plinking with the prop guns (shooting beer cans off a fence) and they left a live round in one weapon. It was the responsibility of first the props person, and second the AD, to check the weapon, which didn't happen. Therefore negligence, and very likely criminal negligence.

 

[sarumbear]

There are so many models of firearms and the film industry uses so many of those that it would create a entire industry to support replica use. I think somebody did the switcheeroo and intentionally caused this shooting.

That industry already exists! Those guns are already being used. Just not on this film's set.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

This whole mess has transformed my semi-sleepy town of Santa Fe, so I stay inside.

At any rate, even if some sick person placed a live round in one of the guns, it is the armouer's responsibility to check all the rounds in the cylinder before handing off the firearm. I assume that dummy rounds lack a primer, and if so, spotting the difference should be relatively easy if someone is paying attention. That the gun got past two people who were supposed to inspect it is unforgivable.

The armourer and the ADs careers are thankfully over.

 

[Inner Space]

That industry already exists! Those guns are already being used. Just not on this film's set.

Indeed. In July I was on a proper, big-budget set (Covid precautions alone cost $3m over 5 months) with a proper armorer and multiple safety checks, including a person who distributed earplugs before every blank round was fired. The difference between that kind of production and Rust is simply immense.

 

[Doodski]

I assume that dummy rounds lack a primer

I used dummy rounds when I was in the cadets and noticed they look similar to a real bullet and they have a primer or are center fire just like a real bullet and they go bang.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I used dummy rounds when I was in the cadets and noticed they look similar to a real bullet and they have a primer or are center fire just like a real bullet and they go bang.

Dummy rounds are different than blanks (which go boom). Dummies are made for close-up shots when the gun has to look loaded. Dummys are supposed to be inert.

 

[Doodski]

Dummy rounds are different than blanks (which go boom). Dummies are made for close-up shots when the gun has to look loaded.

Hmmzz I see.

 

[Inner Space]

Dummy rounds are different than blanks (which go boom). Dummies are made for close-up shots when the gun has to look loaded. Dummys are supposed to be inert.

Typically they're filled with ground up peanut shells, which makes the weight about right if you need a moody shot of the shell rolling across a table.

 

[thulle]

 

[tomtoo]

Yes you will hate me, but for me it looks like there are less security measurements on a US filmset. Than for trained german soldiers doing there job securing a armee depot. Whats somehow strange for a geman.
ammunition for a guard is basically a four-eye process

 

[Putter]

This whole mess has transformed my semi-sleepy town of Santa Fe, so I stay inside.

At any rate, even if some sick person placed a live round in one of the guns, it is the armouer's responsibility to check all the rounds in the cylinder before handing off the firearm. I assume that dummy rounds lack a primer, and if so, spotting the difference should be relatively easy if someone is paying attention. That the gun got past two people who were supposed to inspect it is unforgivable.

The armourer and the ADs careers are thankfully over.

It got past THREE people. Yes, Alec Baldwin also has responsibility. He has to assume that the gun is loaded and at least not point it directly at anyone, let alone a cinematographer responsible for the actual filming. His career may be over too.

 

[litemotiv]

[MEME]

This is partly incorrect and also misleading. The gun was handed over by the Assistent Director, who is not just a stagehand but the person who is directly responsible for an orderly set at this stage of filming. Also Baldwin is not "the producer", he is "a producer". These types of films have many producers, some are only involved with financing, some are involved with the actual production. Often times especially with lower budget productions, a well known actor may play their part for a lower fee in exchange for a production title. This will ensure that they will get a percentage of the films earnings, rather than being paid a fixed amount upfront. This can be beneficial for both parties.

Baldwin certainly wasn't the person directly responsible for many of the things that went wrong here, especially not in his role as a titled producer.

 

[tomtoo]

This is partly incorrect and also misleading. The gun was handed over by the Assistent Director, who is not just a stagehand but the person who is directly responsible for an orderly set at this stage of filming. Also Baldwin is not "the producer", he is "a producer". These types of films have many producers, some are only involved with financing, some are involved with the actual production. Often times especially with lower budget productions, a well known actor may play their part for a lower fee in exchange for a production title. This will ensure that they will get a percentage of the films earnings, rather than being paid a fixed amount upfront. This can be beneficial for both parties.

Baldwin certainly wasn't the person directly responsible for many of the things that went wrong here, especially not in his role as a titled producer.

It could be so easy. Munition alowed on the set has to get color markt. And ammunition of a weapon is a four eye process. Thats not expensive. And could save lives.

 

[litemotiv]

It could be so easy. Munition alowed on the set has to get color markt. And ammunition of a weapon is a four eye process. Thats not expensive. And could save lives.

I think they should just stop using munition of any kind on filmsets and just do it in post, even if it costs more...

 

[Destination: Moon]

To say Baldwin is responsible because he put up some money to help make the films means anyone that owned BP is personally responsible for the deep water Horizon spill. And you could extrapolate that to anyone owning part of a business that went wrong and harms people, no matter that they didn't take part in decision making.... Which is a daily occurrence.

If he was personally involved in decisions that let the accident happen, maybe that's a different matter.... But being a high profile investor doesn't mean he had anything to do with the decisions.

And it's been discovered that as someone mentioned above, they were using some of the prop guns with live rounds to kill time. Which should never had been permitted. Hell, there shouldn't have been live rounds within a mile of the set. But this being America, probably half the crew had guns with them.....

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I think they should just stop using munition of any kind on filmsets and just do it in post, even if it costs more...

The firearms used on production filming would need some mechanism so that the sound and visual designers in post production would know the instant a shot is supposed to be fired. Perhaps the firearm could emit a beep, or perhaps a radio frequency link to a box plugged into the production sound mixer which does the same thing.

The firearms used on production are supposed to be unable to chamber a live round and only accept blanks. This production used real firearms (replica Colt 45s), which is a particularly stupid and risky thing to do.

One obvious problem I see with using totally inert 'dummy' guns is that automatic pistols need to visibly cycle the slide between shots - and display the resulting recoil, and this would be difficult or impossible or very costly to do in CGI.

Of course an even better solution would be to simply make movies whose plots don't rely on people killing people.

 

[j^j=e^-pi/2]

Take the whole Hollywood production stuff (blame game) out of the equation. It was simply a man mishandling a real gun.

If you handle potentially dangerous things, you are obligated to educate yourself. If Baldwin followed the well know and universal firearm rules, he wouldn't have killed anyone:

• Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
• Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
• Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
• Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

He should be charged criminally and do prison time. He has no excuse.