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Absolute Silence - Server Build & Turemetal UP10 Case Review

wyup

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@amirm Why don't you move to a silent platform as your pc-bench for all tests? With a Corsair PSU and fanless environment, output usb connection with the AP and/or DACs must be cleaner and throw better measurents, avoiding fan noise from the computer and providing cleaner power and data signal.
 
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Or just don't use a heatsink, but then most drives will throttle under sustained heavy read/write. It may be possible to overheat the flash if you cool only the controller, but I haven't heard of this happening.
Thanks everyone for coming to my presentation ;)
Me either, and in those cases the controller - which will be cooler and thus more reliably functioning should be aware and throttle due to the overshoot on the NAND temps anyway. I'm sure that could be a problem on uncooled arrays of SSDs perhaps, but the odds of running into that in a single drive with just general airflow would have to be miniscule (unless you want to hand out warranty replacements all the time).

Good presentation - where are the coffee and donuts? :D

Interesting thanks. My Asrock motherboard has a heatsink for the 2 M.2 slots, but due to the ITX smallness, it’s shared with the H470 chipset. I guess the chipset and drive are keeping each other comfortably warm ;)
That's how my ITX board is too (ASUS Strix Z270i). It soaks horribly and is basically useless for cooling at all - in fact, the SSD is much more resistant to throttling with the top off and no heatsink at all. The PCH runs 2-3C cooler that way as well, so it's a very confusing use argument. Of course, aesthetically speaking, it looks like utter crap that way - so I use it anyway. :rolleyes:

Although I guess it's better than the grossly overpriced disaster in my main workstation (Rampage VI Extreme) where the cover prohibits using a heatsink, is made of plastic, and completely prevents any airflow from reaching the SSD. Luckily they also include the DIMM.2 riser for this purpose (and those use the CPU lanes) but it precludes using the slot under the cover for anything other than just basic storage - and even then large transfers will start it throttling in about 30 seconds or so. Fantastic design. :facepalm:
 
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Thanks for sharing! I also enjoyed seeing Domo-kun.

In the old days pure passive rigs always risked motherboard component failures. I'll be curious how you make out long term. I've built one purely passive rig when it was much less common. I wasn't happy with temps and have had a low speed fan blowing across the whole heatsink case. You can't hear it. The good news for me is that <knock wood> it's been running now as my HTPC for about 6 years now.

Yes, I've had similar issues as well. Part of my improved expectations for this build are the significant advancements in component efficiency as well as comprehensive management of both thermal and electrical characteristics. In the past it was either nothing, or very limited (i.e. if the chipset or CPU pass tjmax - shut off completely). Now the MB and CPU will adjust speeds, voltages, active cores, selectively turn off unused PCI devices, etc... all in realtime and without much fanfare. Most of the temperatures I observed during stress testing were within 10% or so of an active system under similar loads (the exception being the VRAM on the GPU... but that will never be loaded again like it was during that test).

Eventually I plan to install a rack enclosure/closet with dedicated (and HEPA filtered) air circulation/conditioning. At least that's the dream... we'll see if I ever get there.
 
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I just ordered this case and will report back when I get it.
Monsterlabo thé besat

Nice. I look forward to hearing the results... one of the things that's nice about that case is the option to simply place a large (140mm or 200mm) fan on top to pull through the entire case during a period of intense loading... and then operate passively the rest of the time.

Of course, on the other side is the form-factor, which is a bit too limiting IMO (some of the features I wanted aren't available on an ITX or mATX board - or at least not all together).
 

pierre

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Nice. I look forward to hearing the results... one of the things that's nice about that case is the option to simply place a large (140mm or 200mm) fan on top to pull through the entire case during a period of intense loading... and then operate passively the rest of the time.

Of course, on the other side is the form-factor, which is a bit too limiting IMO (some of the features I wanted aren't available on an ITX or mATX board - or at least not all together).

This one is the large version where you can put an ATX MB. The fan option is useful I think when you run the computer hard: CPU is told to be 95W TDP but run at 135W with a full load and the GPU is around 250W. I hope that the fan will only quick on when under heavy load. I also hope that the 2xM2 and the memory will stay at reasonable temperature.

The thermal engineer that design the case looks really good and knowledgable.
 
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This one is the large version where you can put an ATX MB. The fan option is useful I think when you run the computer hard: CPU is told to be 95W TDP but run at 135W with a full load and the GPU is around 250W. I hope that the fan will only quick on when under heavy load. I also hope that the 2xM2 and the memory will stay at reasonable temperature.

The thermal engineer that design the case looks really good and knowledgable.
Ah that's great then, I saw the three (or 4?) lower slots, and I remember their first case was ITX so I thought this was just mATX at most.

With full ATX that becomes much more compelling since you've got more room for the M.2 drives, VRM, and PCH cooling to be spaced farther apart and dissipate more evenly. Also nice that newer boards have much better fan control built it as well. On my ASUS boards, they have customizable trip and hold values which would work great with this case. On the older versions fan control really defeated the purpose since it was just a straight ramp related to temperature... now you can easily set it up to avoid the "buzz saw" effect of constant start/stop cycles.

LOL... I might just have to try out one of these cases as well! Now I just have to come up with justification for seven desktops and four laptops. Soon I'll be at the place where I actually have more computers than pairs of speakers... which I'm fine with. :cool:
 

Sal1950

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Willem

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I replaced all of my user's workstations with NUCs in Akasa cases about 5 years ago to great success. They're still all running great and no issues whatsoever - but they're definitely lower spec NUCs than the NUC10i7FNH used in that one. They make cases for almost every generation and model NUC. They also have an ITX case which is similar to the HDPlex offerings coming out soon.
I just received my Intel NUC 10th gen i7 built into an Akasa Turing FX case. It is an extraordinary experience after decades of noisy computing. This will serve as the work PC in my home office, but will also be used as a music streaming source in that home office. I waited for years until such small fanless computers would become powerful enough for my professional use. It is certainly a lot faster than my old home office computer, and fast enough for anything other than intensive CAD/CAM, gaming, and perhaps video editing etc. I opted for a 1Tb SSD and one bank of 32 mb memory (if I need more, I can simply add another memory card). See here for more info: https://nucblog.net/2020/07/akasa-turing-fx-review-frost-canyon-fanless-case/ I followed that review's advice and had TDP lowered to 25 Watt. It is not a cheap option, of course, particularly if you cannot do the build yourself, but complete silence is quite a bit better than fairly quiet.
 

Sal1950

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It is not a cheap option, of course, particularly if you cannot do the build yourself, but complete silence is quite a bit better than fairly quiet.
A super nice build for a fanless NUC. Not sure it's something I'd go for but I do want to build a slient rig at some point and will keep looking.
I would like something in a much larger case that can accomidate a couple optical drives and maybe 3 or 4 SSD's internallly for my desktop, all in one workhorse, music server. Got to keep looking.
 

Willem

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This is all the processing power and storage that I need. However, Akasa also make nice larger cases.
 

firedog

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A super nice build for a fanless NUC. Not sure it's something I'd go for but I do want to build a slient rig at some point and will keep looking.
I would like something in a much larger case that can accomidate a couple optical drives and maybe 3 or 4 SSD's internallly for my desktop, all in one workhorse, music server. Got to keep looking.

Sal I went from a fanless build to a fanned build - but in a roomy gaming case with soundproofing panels. Also used very large slow fans for case and motherboard - this PC is Quieter than my fanless server, because I can't hear the storage HDD at all -even from right next to the case. Can't hear the fans, either.
Stays cooler than the fanless PC and is also cheaper. Recommended.
 

Sal1950

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Sal I went from a fanless build to a fanned build - but in a roomy gaming case with soundproofing panels. Also used very large slow fans for case and motherboard - this PC is Quieter than my fanless server, because I can't hear the storage HDD at all -even from right next to the case. Can't hear the fans, either.
Stays cooler than the fanless PC and is also cheaper. Recommended.
That's close to what I have now. I've built using a giant Cooler Master Cosmos case using a large Artic Freezer 7 CPU cooler and Noctua fans running reduced speeds. I believe the power supply fan is the worst offender but the box is still noisy even with all SSD drives. I've got some ideas of updating my current box with some more modern parts and a silent power supply at some point. Built this box in 2008 so it's due I guess.
 

Willem

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The one I replaced was also from 2008. I also found the difference in electricity consumption interesting (and that is what allows fanless operation, of course). My hunch is that I am saving at least 1 kW per day, and at Dutch electricity prices that adds up to about $100 a year. In our case with solar panels on the roof, it means we are getting very close to the point where our annual consumption equals our own production, though not perfectly synchronized, of course.
 
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@Sal1950 there are a ton of things you can do to mod your existing case in order to be completely silent (at least from more than an inch or two away from it). Cutting away any fan-guards to reduce turbulence, resistance, and resonances. Swapping out all fans to either Noctua or similar silent models (and adding a fan controller as well if you want options). Decoupling all fans if the model selected doesn't already come with silicone gaskets and pull-pegs. Switching to a hybrid or fully-passive model of PSU (I over-spec all my PSUs so unless rendering or gaming... they never have their fans on).

If you're up to a little fabrication... adding some ducting to direct airflow to specific hot spots will also allow for lower fan speeds to accomplish the same cooling efficiency as higher ones in an open space - while also creating some extra damping inside. Adding acoustimat or similar MLV substrate on the doors and floor will help as well.

Probably the biggest gains are simply over-cooling the CPU... i.e. get as large a heatsink as the case allows (and yours will hold almost everything) and then use the fan controller (on the MB or add-in controller) to only spin up that fan when your CPU is within 20% of TjMax. Most motherboards (esp. those from 2008 or so) are far too aggressive on the fan curve for the CPU and often just match the utilization. The problem is that 100% CPU loading doesn't mean 100% thermal output - a 50% AVX512 load will dump heat like mad (possibly to throttling) while a 100% utility load might still be under 50C at the cores.

But definitely getting newer hardware will be a huge benefit, regardless of what type - because it will require far less wattage in order to do what outdated hardware can do at similar speeds. Modern MB and CPU management options (setting specific per-core current limits and clocks for example) and you have the best of both worlds.
 

Willem

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I had to wait for an external hub to connect additional devices, and that is what I just did. I now have two small problems because first when I stream Spotify every minuite or so the audio is interrupted for a fraction of a second, and second when I am not streaming but the audio is still on I can hear a slight tick, again every so often. I am not sure these two things are related, and even less what I could do about them. I would be grateful for suggestions.
 

Jinjuku

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For day to day getting a silent PC is trivial:

ASRock J4105 Motherboard
Seasonic S12III 500 power supply
Kingston or other SSD
 

Willem

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I would be grateful for suggestions.
Since then I have tried with TuneIn internet radio and the problem is the same, so it is not a Spotify setting but something in the computer.
 

Willem

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Stuttering audio seems to be a known Windows 10 issue, but the potential solutions do not seem to work thus far.
 
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Stuttering audio seems to be a known Windows 10 issue, but the potential solutions do not seem to work thus far.
I haven't encountered this but it sounds like some kind of polling issue which is momentarily breaking the connection. Unfortunately this is probably due to a driver implementation with either the USB hub itself or the internal controller. I'd check for any late release drivers for every device related to USB, networking, BT, etc. It could be another device/app accessing the audio subsystem briefly as well... though that would probably be a more pronounced interruption.

Also possible that some power saving feature is causing problems - I've encountered a few of those. Try turning every "power down when not in use" type of feature OFF in the advanced power settings and see if that helps (some might be hidden in the advanced properties of the device itself in Device Manager). It seems like there's always some form of gremlins in a Windows system, so another option is to write a live linux image (or two) to thumbdrives and boot to those and see if the problem persists. I often use that method to determine whether hardware settings or Windows itself is the primary culprit in under-documented problems.

Good luck... nothing's more frustrating than the kind of problems "no one has" on support forums, etc. Strange how I seem to get them all the time.
 
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