A millennial's rant on classical music

[Sal1950]

I bet the hammer strike in the 6th symphony would do it.

He looks pissed, did the trumpet or piccolo player survive the strike ?

 

[Dialectic]

I had my hearing slightly damaged by bass drums and the like when I was (briefly) an orchestral musician....

 

[xaviescacs]

2020 Petrenko's version with the Berliner incorporates a much bigger mallet. My son loves this moment.

 

[sonitus mirus]

There is no way I'm putting on a tuxedo just to hit a wooden block with a giant mallet. Now, if they let me wear sweatpants....

 

[krabapple]

It's not far from the truth. John Cage was an actual communist. I don't really care about the politics or personal beliefs of the composer, all I care about is whether they wrote good music. After all I love Bach's religious music (even though I am an atheist), I love Wagner (even though he was an antisemite), and I like Khachaturian (who was a member of the Communist Party). I even listen to Karajan who was a member of the Nazi Party.

But John Cage's music was awful. There are two extremes with Classical music - on one extreme are things that are too populist and too commercial (like John Williams) and on the other are the avant-garde weird stuff that nobody understands (like John Cage).

What's kind of awful is saying 'nobody understands' something when there are clearly people who do. Not that 'understanding' is required at all levels of music appreciation. You can simply *like* music without 'understanding' it.

 

[pablolie]

2020 Petrenko's version with the Berliner incorporates a much bigger mallet. My son loves this moment.

This kind of thing reminds me of... :-D

 

[Robin L]

There's no way I will avoid hearing Rattle and the Bavarian RSO perform the 6th Symphony in NYC in May.

A long time ago (1970s? 1980s?) went to hear Rattle lead the L.A. Philharmonic in Mahler's Second. Patrons started to leave ten minutes before the end. I thought "How rude". As it turned out, they were attempting to get to the bars before they filled up and it was too late to get a drink. Have to say I found the performance underwhelming (the acoustics, which seemed to swallow up the sound, didn't help), so I haven't been too keen on Rattle in Mahler ever since. That said, I'm sure a great orchestra playing that piece should be overwhelming. Right now, I've got CDs of the 6th By Solti/Chicago (London/Decca 1970) and Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic (DGG, 1988) and I am scared to listen to either of them.

 

[Robin L]

What's kind of awful is saying 'nobody understands' something when there are clearly people who do. Not that 'understanding' is required at all levels of music appreciation. You can simply *like* music without 'understanding' it.

Speaking of the Fluxus movement: in the Rutles mockumentry the stand-in for Yoko Ono (Hitler's daughter, BTW) was part of a movement of "Distructo-Art" that involved shoving pianos off of rooftops. Yoko and company did just that in the name of the Fluxus movement. Have to say that Cage's music for prepared piano can be accessible. I suspect some of his musical events were more along the lines of "happenings", site specific and intended to be experienced by wandering through the venue instead of being pinned to a seat in the concert hall.

 

[pablolie]

In many cities in Europe, especially some formerly referred as "Eastern", you can walk through beautiful pedestrian zones and come across classical music - either awesome solo artists or breath-taking little ensembles. Nope, listening to classical doesn't require a black tie. When I still lived in Munich or Frankfurt, you could wear whatever you wanted (well, shorts and flip flops and a tank-top seem inappropriate).

 

[Robin L]

Serendipitously enough, I was handed a shopping bag full of classical CDs today to pick through and took 24 home with me. The haul included Dinu Lipatti's famous recording of Chopin's 14 waltzes:

 

[Kal Rubinson]

A long time ago (1970s? 1980s?) went to hear Rattle lead the L.A. Philharmonic in Mahler's Second. Patrons started to leave ten minutes before the end. I thought "How rude". As it turned out, they were attempting to get to the bars before they filled up and it was too late to get a drink. Have to say I found the performance underwhelming (the acoustics, which seemed to swallow up the sound, didn't help), so I haven't been too keen on Rattle in Mahler ever since. That said, I'm sure a great orchestra playing that piece should be overwhelming. Right now, I've got CDs of the 6th By Solti/Chicago (London/Decca 1970) and Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic (DGG, 1988) and I am scared to listen to either of them.

The Bernstein/VPO is my long time favorite despite a less than ideal acoustic. As for Rattle, I found his early work with Birmingham more interesting than most of the Berlin performances. With the LSO, in between. Not much experience (yet) with him and the Bavarians.

 

[Robin L]

The Bernstein/VPO is my long time favorite despite a less than ideal acoustic. As for Rattle, I found his early work with Birmingham more interesting than most of the Berlin performances. With the LSO, in between. Not much experience (yet) with him and the Bavarians.

I plan on getting the Sony box of Bernstein's NYPO performances of Mahler, my understanding is that the most recent remastering sound considerably better than previous editions. Love the 2nd from that set, also the 7th. I recall that the 6th from that set affected me emotionally the most of any recording, though that was the first recording I heard. There's something to be said for "The Shock of the New".

 

[rdenney]

What's kind of awful is saying 'nobody understands' something when there are clearly people who do. Not that 'understanding' is required at all levels of music appreciation. You can simply *like* music without 'understanding' it.

(emphasis mine.) So true. One of the main features of music written at this level is that it defies understanding, or at least immediate understanding. People complain that classical music is too obscure, but for me this is a feature, not a bug.

As a tuba player, I do things in the practice room that would not warrant public performance, even if I was technically up to it, which usually I am not. One of them is that I spend time working through parts of the 'Cello Suites of Bach. In particular, I've been working on the two bourrees from the Third Suite, which are among the most accessible in terms of playability on a wind instrument, in addition to being mercifully short. I've been working on these two bourrees as part of my practice ritual for, oh, about 15 years.

I still have no insight as to how to musically portray these works that wouldn't be just attempting to copy the approach of, say, Rostropovich or Casals, or, especially, Fournier. The more I work on them and listen to them, the more inscrutable they become. But the beauty of them remains undiminished even if I can't figure out why it's beautiful or how to convey that beauty in any personal way.

I am a big fan of progressive rock, and I've listened to that stuff repeatedly for decades. In spite of my love for it and how much it excites me, there is no question in my mind that none of it is as intellectually or emotionally challenging as the least of the Cello Suites.

Rick "noting that the Cello Suites are for a single, unaccompanied voice, and complex orchestra music can add dimensions to scrutability challenge" Denney

 

[krabapple]

Duke Ellington cited a "simple and axiomatic statement that is so important to all of us":

When it sounds good, it is good.

 

[pablolie]

... Cello Suites.

Rick "noting that the Cello Suites are for a single, unaccompanied voice, and complex orchestra music can add dimensions to scrutability challenge" Denney

Love good cello recordings. Gavriel Lipkind has some awesome stuff out. Peter Gregson also makes intriguing things - for one he did one Deutsche Grammophon "Recomposed" album focused on Bach (Warning for the purists, some synth stuff included).

 

[xaviescacs]

There is no way I'm putting on a tuxedo just to hit a wooden block with a giant mallet. Now, if they let me wear sweatpants....

He plays the Cymbals in this concert too

 

[Daverz]

I plan on getting the Sony box of Bernstein's NYPO performances of Mahler, my understanding is that the most recent remastering sound considerably better than previous editions. Love the 2nd from that set, also the 7th. I recall that the 6th from that set affected me emotionally the most of any recording, though that was the first recording I heard. There's something to be said for "The Shock of the New".

Yes, it was a huge improvement and showed what Sony could do with their old tapes if they made the effort. Look for a remaster date of 2012.

 

[Doodski]

Love good cello recordings. Gavriel Lipkind has some awesome stuff out. Peter Gregson also makes intriguing things - for one he did one Deutsche Grammophon "Recomposed" album focused on Bach (Warning for the purists, some synth stuff included).

The track, Peter Gregson - An Evening at Capitol Studios (Official Full Performance) is excellent and I enjoyed it very much. I also liked the intimate environment where the people stood to attend the event. It made it more interesting for some reason. Do you have more tracks that you can propose I experience and get some more culture?

 

[Robin L]

(emphasis mine.) So true. One of the main features of music written at this level is that it defies understanding, or at least immediate understanding. People complain that classical music is too obscure, but for me this is a feature, not a bug.

As a tuba player, I do things in the practice room that would not warrant public performance, even if I was technically up to it, which usually I am not. One of them is that I spend time working through parts of the 'Cello Suites of Bach. In particular, I've been working on the two bourrees from the Third Suite, which are among the most accessible in terms of playability on a wind instrument, in addition to being mercifully short. I've been working on these two bourrees as part of my practice ritual for, oh, about 15 years.

I still have no insight as to how to musically portray these works that wouldn't be just attempting to copy the approach of, say, Rostropovich or Casals, or, especially, Fournier. The more I work on them and listen to them, the more inscrutable they become. But the beauty of them remains undiminished even if I can't figure out why it's beautiful or how to convey that beauty in any personal way.

I am a big fan of progressive rock, and I've listened to that stuff repeatedly for decades. In spite of my love for it and how much it excites me, there is no question in my mind that none of it is as intellectually or emotionally challenging as the least of the Cello Suites.

Rick "noting that the Cello Suites are for a single, unaccompanied voice, and complex orchestra music can add dimensions to scrutability challenge" Denney

I don't know if you've heard of the cellist Anner Bylsma, but he made two very interesting recordings of Bach's Cello Suites. The first one interests me more - he's playing on a smaller "student" cello and emphasizes the dance aspects of the score in a way no one else does. The second recording was made on a rich sounding instrument of larger than average size, and it is very beautiful but loses the dance element. As I recall both recordings are on Sony Classics.

 

[Robin L]

Speaking of Baroque music that dances, the exquisite La Tartarine from book four of Marin Marais Suitte d'un Goût Étranger as performed by Jordi Savall and company: