7.1.4 Man Cave dilemma

[janoschsimon]

Hey All
My name is Janosch Simon 41 and im an audiophil nerd and i love Stereo and even more Multichannel stuff.For my DIY electrostatic headphones i build an hybrid amp called alpha centauri v6 http://www.high-amp.de/html/hybrid-amp_eng.html

and an rpi based soekris dam 1021 dac

i have a pretty smal room that i want to turn into my man cave with an nice 65" oled and i think i go with the Cabasse Eole 4 but now th dilema starts finding an 11.2 Receiver or Processer Power amp. OMG as you can see i care about quality i want a AVR that sounds Audiophil and im not shure what here is the most important part of the chain?
1. the source? guess no high res files or UHD Disc bitstream over HDMI
2. the DAC inside the AVR does it take the bitstream and then do the conversion directly to the speaker terminal?
3. how is Dolby Atmos decoded? by the DAC or an other Processor?
4. what is all the buzz about Class G?

the Receiver i narrowed down are
- Arcam AV20 9.1.6 with ESS 9026PRO Dacs 3500€ 7x90w A/B
- Arcam AV30 9.1.6 with ESS 9026PRO Dacs 5699€ 7x100w Class G
- Denon AVC-X6500H 11.2 AKM AK4458VN 2200€
- Maranz SR8012 11.2 AKM AK4458VN 2500€
- Anthem MRX-720 AKM AK4458VN 3000€
- Denon AVC-X8500H 13.2 AKM AK4490EQ 3700€

i guess the most audiophil should be the one with the ess 9026pro? or is the amplification more siginificant?

or i ask my buddys over at https://www.cinemike.de/en-gb/Tuning/Tuning-Info and by a tuned one from them ?

any of you measured a cinemike tuned reiceiver?

cheers and thx
janosch

 

[KozmoNaut]

1. the source? guess no high res files or UHD Disc bitstream over HDMI

You can stream straight PCM over HDMI, up to 8 channels of 192/24 audio.

2. the DAC inside the AVR does it take the bitstream and then do the conversion directly to the speaker terminal?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Digital signals go in, get processed, then to the DAC and amplifiers, is that what you mean?

Some AVRs have direct modes that purport to skip the processing.

3. how is Dolby Atmos decoded? by the DAC or an other Processor?

By the DSP/processing. The DAC converts digital PCM audio to analog signals, so it needs a decoded bitstream.

4. what is all the buzz about Class G?

It's just a more power efficient variant of class AB.

Don't fret over specific DAC chips, there is so much more going on in an AVR in regards to sound, that any theoretical difference between chips is utterly irrelevant.

 

[janoschsimon]

HMMMMMM thx for the answer guess i have to test by myself but its hard to get my handy on all those amps. Does any of you measured or heard a cinemike tuned avr?

cheers janosch

 

[KozmoNaut]

Not that I know of, and it seems like snake oil to me. Not a single measurement to be seen anywhere on the site.

 

[janoschsimon]

hmm the HDTVtest guy seems to be impressed

perhabs he has something used i can test

 

[KozmoNaut]

Again, I see absolutely no measurements of any kind, just subjective talk.

 

[watchnerd]

1. the source? guess no high res files or UHD Disc bitstream over HDMI

You can stream straight PCM over HDMI, up to 8 channels of 192/24 audio.

2. the DAC inside the AVR does it take the bitstream and then do the conversion directly to the speaker terminal?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Digital signals go in, get processed, then to the DAC and amplifiers, is that what you mean?

Some AVRs have direct modes that purport to skip the processing.

3. how is Dolby Atmos decoded? by the DAC or an other Processor?

By the DSP/processing. The DAC converts digital PCM audio to analog signals, so it needs a decoded bitstream.

4. what is all the buzz about Class G?

It's just a more power efficient variant of class AB.

Don't fret over specific DAC chips, there is so much more going on in an AVR in regards to sound, that any theoretical difference between chips is utterly irrelevant.

Did I understand correctly that you built your own electrostatic headphones?

 

[janoschsimon]

Again, I see absolutely no measurements of any kind, just subjective talk.

hmmm yeah but can it be objectivly measured? dang the more i research the more my head spins

Did I understand correctly that you built your own electrostatic headphones?

indeed and they sound amazing so airy only problem is bass which i hope to start my version two with a bigger membrane its fairly easy to build the electraostatic headphone amp was wayyyyyyyy harder

 

[KozmoNaut]

hmmm yeah but can it be objectivly measured? dang the more i research the more my head spins

He claims to improve performance, that must mean lower noise and/or less distortion, which can absolutely be measured, for instance see every review Amir does on this site.

 

[gene_stl]

For a long time the Oppo 205 was at the extreme left of Amir's SINAD standings (ie. the best one) This tells me that that guy (above)is full of BS and is being paid by ModWright or the Korean guy who sells mods. It is extremely unlikely that you would hear a difference. I think it is more likely that these mods degrade rather than improve performance. For example "ModWright" takes the cleanest quiestest universal player and put TUBES in it. What could be stupider??
When I hear about tuning something as complex as an AVR my bullshit alarm goes off to the max. It's not a seventies FM tuner, there are no circuits in any modern equipment that need any tuning. That is the whole point of digital. Do you think that some asshole working in the back room of a retail shop knows more than the large crews of Professional Electrical Engineers employed by the big companies. I'll bet the "tuners" won't disclose what their tuning actually is, nor demonstrate before and after performance, with measurements. Most of them sprinkle pixie dust.

See @VintageFlanker post:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ile-snake-oil-facepalm-time.9950/#post-268626

We may need to start a 12 step program for Snake Oil withdrawal.

 

[janoschsimon]

ho ho ho calm down dont want a war here is a german cinema builder video how compares a stock Bryston SP3 with an Cinemike SP3
https://www.takeoffmedia24.de/heimkino-bauen/komplett-heimkino/ the video and page is sadly in german

and in that video is a screenshot of high frequency emission before and after cinemike

and the "hollywoodzuhause" guy lars mette posted a table with his oppions

the test is pretty old but the reviewer build very nice custom cinemas so i think its not complte bs

 

[gene_stl]

Putting opinions into tables does not convert them from being opinions . The mob can be quite wrong. The left column consists of categories that are utterly meaningless. Opinions are not factual objective data they are subjective data unless you are mr. Gallup. (famous American pollster) What is the definition of "detail" or "naturalness". There ain't none, neither in englisch nor in deutsch.
The changes in the tuned spectrum display are rather unlikely to be audible. And easy to fudge.

At all the other web fora that I participate in I would just ignore your post (und lass ihm teppert sterben). But here measured data rules. Here we don't like audiophile snake oil and it gets called out by someone every time.

 

[janoschsimon]

ok but the high frequency emission shows an optimisation or not? never worked with that "und lass ihm teppert sterben" guess you mean let me die stupid?

 

[North_Sky]

... i have a pretty smal room that i want to turn into my man cave with an nice 65" oled and i think i go with the Cabasse Eole 4 but now th dilema starts finding an 11.2 Receiver or Processer Power amp. OMG as you can see i care about quality i want a AVR that sounds Audiophil and im not shure what here is the most important part of the chain?
1. the source? guess no high res files or UHD Disc bitstream over HDMI
2. the DAC inside the AVR does it take the bitstream and then do the conversion directly to the speaker terminal?
3. how is Dolby Atmos decoded? by the DAC or an other Processor?
4. what is all the buzz about Class G?

the Receiver i narrowed down are
- Arcam AV20 9.1.6 with ESS 9026PRO Dacs 3500€ 7x90w A/B
- Arcam AV30 9.1.6 with ESS 9026PRO Dacs 5699€ 7x100w Class G
- Denon AVC-X6500H 11.2 AKM AK4458VN 2200€
- Maranz SR8012 11.2 AKM AK4458VN 2500€
- Anthem MRX-720 AKM AK4458VN 3000€
- Denon AVC-X8500H 13.2 AKM AK4490EQ 3700€

cheers and thx
janosch

Hi Janosch,

You said that you have a "pretty small room" ... how pretty small?

Between an AVR and SSP you don't seem to be too sure; if your room is "pretty small" and that you put all your audio /video equipment in that room, an AVR would save you some space overall. On the other hand if that equipment is in another room or enclave closet, a SSP might be a smarter choice for you as you can select your own amplification separately for smarter outlook into the future (only the SSP could be upgraded).

Again, if you room is "pretty small" do you truly need 11.2-channel of amplification and speakers?

1. Your sources are varied as the winds blowing from November to the end of Summer.
You can stream hires music and hidef movies. Do you use a turntable, a music server, a CD/SACD player, a Blu-ray player (4K), an open reel tape recorder?

2 & 3. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are decoded inside the AVR (pre/pro) by the DSP chip(s). The audio Bitstream signal comes directly from the source via a HDMI connection.
The conversion from digital to analog (digital source to analog speakers) is done inside the AVR/SSP (DACs).

4. Powerful, efficiency, ...

Zoom in (small lettering).

Of the bat (AVRs you posted above), and depending of your room's dimensions, I would keep an eye open here for future unbiased intelligent reviews with solid measurements done by a competent measuring guy expert ...
☆ https://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-ex...-avr30-mit-revel-performa-lautsprecher-setup/

Cheers,
Bob

 

[gene_stl]

It shows a change that is not likely to be audible.
The translation I always used for that phrase was "let him die ignorant" .
Here people try to help you.

 

[watchnerd]

indeed and they sound amazing so airy only problem is bass which i hope to start my version two with a bigger membrane its fairly easy to build the electraostatic headphone amp was wayyyyyyyy harder

Info on how? Kit? Plans?

 

[janoschsimon]

sure from this page i learned everything https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones.498292/ and also posted some times very helpfull

 

[janoschsimon]

Hi Janosh,

You said that you have a "pretty small room" ... how pretty small?

Between an AVR and SSP you don't seem to be too sure; if your room is "pretty small" and that you put all your audio /video equipment in that room, an AVR would save you some space overall. On the other hand if that equipment is in another room or enclave closet, a SSP might be a smarter choice for you as you can select your own amplification separately for smarter outlook into the future (only the SSP could be upgraded).

Again, if you room is "pretty small" do you truly need 11.2-channel of amplification and speakers?

1. Your sources are varied as the winds blowing from November to the end of Summer.
You can stream hires music and hidef movies. Do you use a turntable, a music server, a CD/SACD player, a Blu-ray player (4K), an open reel tape recorder?

2 & 3. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are decoded inside the AVR (pre/pro) by the DSP chip(s). The audio Bitstream signal comes directly from the source via a HDMI connection.
The conversion from digital to analog (digital source to analog speakers) is done inside the AVR/SSP (DACs).

4. Powerful, efficiency, ...
View attachment 39182
Zoom in (small lettering).

Of the bat (AVRs you posted above), and depending of your room's dimensions, I would keep an eye open here for future unbiased intelligent reviews with solid measurements done by a competent measuring guy expert ...
☆ https://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-ex...-avr30-mit-revel-performa-lautsprecher-setup/

Cheers,
Bob

thx bob the room is about 21 m2 hmmm i dont need but i like it and im nerd who like new toys for this setup i will use an apple tv for netflix and an uhd blayplayer for films. that areadvd made me want the av20

cheers janosch

 

[BDWoody]

sure from this page i learned everything https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones.498292/ and also posted some times very helpfull

That's pretty cool...

 

[watchnerd]

sure from this page i learned everything https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones.498292/ and also posted some times very helpfull

Thanks.

How long did it take you to make them?