Extreme Snake Oil

[Pugsly]

There’s a new audiophoo product from Audioquest, noise stopper caps, rave review of them from positive feedback #1online woo-woo bullshitter

Ow, ow, ow!!! Why did I follow this link? Every time I begin to think that the time of magic crystals, etc. is in the rearview mirror...

 

[escksu]

There’s a new audiophoo product from Audioquest, noise stopper caps, rave review of them from positive feedback #1online woo-woo bullshitter

Do you understand how it works?

 

[escksu]

Ow, ow, ow!!! Why did I follow this link? Every time I begin to think that the time of magic crystals, etc. is in the rearview mirror...

So, do you know why such a device can lower noise? Btw, it may not produce any audible difference.

 

[Pugsly]

So, do you know why such a device can lower noise? Btw, it may not produce any audible difference.

No, please educate me. And I mean that sincerely.

However, your Btw is somewhat undermined by the fact that when one follows the link in question, one finds the following claims:

"This is one of the easiest A/Bs I've ever done. There's no doubt about the change: improved clarity and stereo separation across the stage, and some beefing up of the low frequencies. On the other hand, what happened to the atmosphere on the stage? I had concerns about high-frequency extension and reduced air. I'm missing some tizziness from the cymbals and some ringing on piano top notes."

Compare this to the very similarly worded claims for, e.g., 'audiophile rocks @ http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

 

[MarkS]

I began this round by placing one USB and Rj45 cap on the back of each of my CH Precision M1.1 monoblocks. ...

This is one of the easiest A/Bs I've ever done. There's no doubt about the change: improved clarity and stereo separation across the stage, and some beefing up of the low frequencies. On the other hand, what happened to the atmosphere on the stage? I had concerns about high-frequency extension and reduced air. I'm missing some tizziness from the cymbals and some ringing on piano top notes.

I invited Lynn to render an opinion, since her hearing is more extended in the treble range.

---Marshall Nack

Lynn is Marshall's wife. Installing or uninstalling 4 of these caps (2 on each monoblock amp) should take no more than a minute, and Lynn is there to participate. Marshall could therefore very very easily do a blind test, with Lynn either installing, or not, these 4 caps, and letting Marshall listen and decide whether or not they are indeed installed for that particular session.

Did he do this? Will he?

You know the answer.

 

[escksu]

No, please educate me. And I mean that sincerely.

However, your Btw is somewhat undermined by the fact that when one follows the link in question, one finds the following claims:

"This is one of the easiest A/Bs I've ever done. There's no doubt about the change: improved clarity and stereo separation across the stage, and some beefing up of the low frequencies. On the other hand, what happened to the atmosphere on the stage? I had concerns about high-frequency extension and reduced air. I'm missing some tizziness from the cymbals and some ringing on piano top notes."

Compare this to the very similarly worded claims for, e.g., 'audiophile rocks @ http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

OK, I don't know if their claims are real or placebo or not. That is why I said it may not produce any audible difference. However, my main concern is not about what they claim, its the principle behind this and how you can test it out yourself without buying it.

How it works is simply based on princple of faraday cage. What happens is that when photons strike these metallic connectors, EMF is created (explained by photo electric effect). This EMF is essentially unwanted noise. So, by placing a cover, it prevents this from happening. How well it can act a a shield also depends on what material its made off. Metals (steel, aluminum etc..) would work very well. Even plastic also provides some form of shielding. Another benefit is that it helps to prevent oxidation of the contacts.

Of course, there isn't a need to step $30 for this, you can DIY yourself easily. I used aluminum tape, but I am more concerned about oxidation due to moisture in the air (my country is rather humid), whether it can produce any audible effect or not, I am not sure. However, you can easily measure the noise floor of an amp with proper equipment.

One more thing, extremely sensitive equipment (some lab equipment) needs to be protected from vibration. I don't know how sensitive are these amps or whether damping provides any audible difference. However, electronic equipment can be affected by Earth's magnetic field and vibration from the ground. These cones are just to isolate the amp from vibration. Those stones or whatever does similar effect. Putting different materials together can reduce its vibration to do damping factor of different materials. Again, I don't know if this has any audible effect. Again, someone could measure the noise floor or output.

 

[mansr]

Do you understand how it works?

I do. It doesn't.

 

[Mart68]

very[/I] similarly worded claims for, e.g., 'audiophile rocks @ http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

No, please educate me. And I mean that sincerely.

However, your Btw is somewhat undermined by the fact that when one follows the link in question, one finds the following claims:

"This is one of the easiest A/Bs I've ever done. There's no doubt about the change: improved clarity and stereo separation across the stage, and some beefing up of the low frequencies. On the other hand, what happened to the atmosphere on the stage? I had concerns about high-frequency extension and reduced air. I'm missing some tizziness from the cymbals and some ringing on piano top notes."

Compare this to the very similarly worded claims for, e.g., 'audiophile rocks@ http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

Back when that 'rocks' review came out I asked the reviewer to outline his blind test procedure, He refused and became emotional and defensive.

 

[SIY]

Back when that 'rocks' review came out I asked the reviewer to outline his blind test procedure, He refused and became emotional and defensive.

"Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time." I can see why.

 

[Mart68]

"Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time." I can see why.

what I find interesting is that there doesn't seem to be any idea amongst these reviewers of the wider ramifications if these tweaks actually did work. It would mean something is badly wrong with some pretty basic physics. Nobel Prize-winning stuff. But it's just 'Yes these devices made a subtle but definite improvement - recommended.'

 

[SIY]

what I find interesting is that there doesn't seem to be any idea amongst these reviewers of the wider ramifications if these tweaks actually did work. It would mean something is badly wrong with some pretty basic physics. Nobel Prize-winning stuff. But it's just 'Yes these devices made a subtle but definite improvement - recommended.'

Never let first principles stand in the way of getting paid for an article.

 

[aslan7]

Speaking of cables, a very well known cable manufacturer makes speaker cables with screw on bananas that are gold plated. They are really a tight fit so I called to ask if I could crimp them slightly. He assured me that I would hear a significant difference in sound quality if I switched to the silver bananas that are now standard on the elite line of cables. I wonder.

 

[aslan7]

Damage?? Maybe you should ask where most of the copper goes to. Worthwhile?? What is your definition of worthwhile? Do you know that hifi is actually a waste of resource as well? Look at how much resources is needed to make your amp, DAC, speakers etc... All it does is produce sound for personal entertainment. A cheap $20 speakers produces sound and use way lesser resources. Don't get me started on power consumption.....

Class D is Green.

 

[egellings]

All you have to do is believe. Beee-leeeve! You will truly hear an improvement! What gets me about these tweeks[sic] is that the differences, if any, are microscopic in terms of audibility, but the raves are so oddly macroscopic. Funny mismatch there.

 

[egellings]

Damper pads might help isolate a microphonic tube preamp to reduce noise from that source. For S. S. equipment, not so much.

 

[Wes]

ecsu, the "definition of worthwhile" can easily be found in a dictionary. Something that adds no value whatsoever is not worthwhile.

 

[redshift]

I see this through the lens of rampant capitalism versus reasonable government regulations.

For example, almost no one is going to argue that it was bad for the government to set standards such as children's pajamas not be flammable or that airplanes not fall out of the sky. These were actually big issues in the 60's and early 70's.

Today, even if we have decent regulations we often have a vacuum of enforcement. You can review historical funding levels. Over funding some agencies while under funding others (sometimes in very specific categories). Quick comparison of DEA versus SEC. War on drugs has been a 40 year failure but we keep investing more and more. Meanwhile the SEC has almost no investigators and even less lawyers.

Every time someone claims that our industry is self-regulating during some interview I end up yelling at the so-called reporter who allows it to pass.

While this is not a uniquely American problem we have a history of exploitation in the name of holy capitalism. We are out of balance and hopefully someday we will be closer.

I tend to think that capitalism went way over the top sometimes when Ronnie Raygun and his cronies took charge of the behemoth and went full tilt with the consumerism and materialism. We sure got “growth”, no doubt about that. But as Thomas Sowell would ask: At what price?

Apparently one of the dues is the rampant scams that followed in its wake.

 

[UKPI]

How it works is simply based on princple of faraday cage. What happens is that when photons strike these metallic connectors, EMF is created (explained by photo electric effect). This EMF is essentially unwanted noise. So, by placing a cover, it prevents this from happening. How well it can act a a shield also depends on what material its made off. Metals (steel, aluminum etc..) would work very well. Even plastic also provides some form of shielding. Another benefit is that it helps to prevent oxidation of the contacts.

Photoelectric effect has nothing to do with electromagnetic interference. Besides, frequencies of visible light are not high enough to break electrons free from connectors and cables. Noise by electromagnetic interference happens when electric circuits (cables, connectors, amps, etc.) unintentionally act as an antenna because of the interaction of electro and magnetic part of the world.

When you shield a device, you have to think about the entire device and design accordingly. Just plugging in some caps doesn't do anything.

 

[Victor Martell]

I don't agree. Getting these very rich pple to spend is actually good for economy. We have to understand that these people have so much money that 20-30K for a cable is nothing to them. Even 500K for a pair of speakers is trivial to them too.

At this level, its about brand name rather than value or performance. Just like luxury bags, do you think the BOM cost anywhere close to the bag's price tag? Even services they pay are on differen level from the rest of us. They could spend a few thousands just for a haircut that looks no different from one that cost $50.

well - yes and no - please keep in mind that I said "waste of resources" - not "bad for the economy" or anything like that- you don't need a degree in Economics or pretend you have one to know that economic activity is good. I also I consider the money a resource, not talking about natural or other resources necessary to make 1m of $28,0000/m cable. So not trying a green argument here.

IMHO it goes like these - sure giving $28,000 to an expensive audio cable company for 1m of cable keeps the economy moving. In what degree well, that is a different debate. I ALSO MENTIONED: BENEFIT TO THE EXPENSIVE AUDIO CABLE COMPANY EMPLOYEES ****ASIDE***** ( btw, I hope the expensive audio cable company pays them for making $28,000 for them and not only for making 1m of cable...)

I consider it a waste of resources because those $28K would go a longer way for the spender or society if used otherwise... from just investing the money to even spending that in let's say 1 night at the best hotel/resort in the world, to applying the money to speakers instead of cables... would net more measurable benefit to the spender than using it on cables indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice cables... Not to mention, investing on a Tech fund that would drive America's progress for the future, donating to the LA Phil... or the Pacific Symphony ( in the O.C. CA), or the Seattle Symphony (Washington State), to donating to education, STEM or otherwise, etc... All a better use of resources (money), even in terms of measurable benefit ONLY to the spender, than 1m of $28,000 cable, indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice.

v

 

[HorizonsEdge]

I tend to think that capitalism went way over the top sometimes when Ronnie Raygun and his cronies took charge of the behemoth and went full tilt with the consumerism and materialism. We sure got “growth”, no doubt about that. But as Thomas Sowell would ask: At what price?

Apparently one of the dues is the rampant scams that followed in its wake.

While certainly true, history is full of similar periods. Every era seems to have the BIG business evolving faster than government can understand it and check it. These include anti-trust recipients:

• Railroads
• Energy
• AT&T

to name a few. Today's examples might include:

• Amazon
• Facebook

The problem with audio is that in comparison its shenanigans are too small to get noticed. The benefactors seem to have mastered exploitation of societal and psychological discord that mar our current times. One of the reasons why I like this site so much is that it strives for facts no matter how slippery the slope. Universal FACT like 1+1 always equals 2 except MAYBE inside a black hole. As opposed to truth which seems to have become the purview of each individual or herd. Somewhere along the time line there was a divergence.