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Extreme Snake Oil

BluesDaddy

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I am curious, it is not okay to hate injustice, ignorance and fraud simply because it is right and proper to do so? Is it "self-righteous" to seek to educate people? Is it ego centric to want to see facts and truth overcome bullshit? Absolutely people have a right to choose what to do with their own money, but informed choices are best!
 
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gsp1971

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Ok, i do agree with you its a waste of resources. So, whats next? Is anything going to change? Any of those "fools" listening to you??

Btw, I am sure that pretty much everyone in this forum are extremely unlikely to buy those cables. I am also very sure that those "fools" will still continue to purchase that 28k cable. I could be wrong but i seriously doubt they will listen to you.

If you agree, why keep arguing? Spread the word and someone will listen. One step a time, one person at a time. Nobody listened to Dr. Floyd Toole for years but he went about his business and spent all his life trying to educate, prove, and persuade.

The world obviously does not revolves around anyone of us here in this forum. So, regardless of your or mine, others are not obliged to listen nor to agree with it.
Absolutely correct. Nobody said the world revolves around us here (whatever you mean by 'us').
But there are certain scientific facts that cannot be disputed.
Now if some rich fella is aware of those facts and still wants to spend a truck load of money on a silly product, be my guest.

The purpose of ASR is to educate and inform based on scientific facts. Many members across a number of threads have said that ASR opened their eyes (myself included).

And in all honesty, I doubt wealthy people will spend any time researching stuff around ASR of other forums. They will just go to the local dealer and spend their money on whatever the dealer says or whatever they audition on the day.

It is the average consumer, whose budget is limited and hard-earned, that will benefit the most from ASR.

So instead of arguing about whether wealthy people 'have the right to do this' and 'have the right to do that', let's keep our focus on presenting the scientific facts to people who want to listen, and perhaps if we can save one poor soul from wasting $500 on a USB cable and spend it elsewhere, it will be worth everybody's time and energy.
 
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Victor Martell

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So its not illegal. So, whats your problem then? Are they spending your money or are they spending their own money? Do you have any jurisdiction over their money?

Just to reply to this and a previous post by @escksu . To make it about personal free will is missing the point of the conversation spectacularly. All in the above in the post is true. All irrelevant.

The point is that, yes, just by existing, magical thinking in audio should be fought. Even if preaching to the converted here, even if ducking it out at magical thinking sites and forums and getting ignored and piled on, it should not be left unchallenged. The other part that bothers me about that kind of spending (other than it could be better used EVEN if benefiting only the spender) is that it feeds and funds the propagation of irrational thinking.

Every bit of argument pro rational thinking, is worth it, be it against magical audio stones, $28,000/m cable that is indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice, flat earthers or anti-vaxxers. All exercising their personal freedom. All fools.

Is all part of the same malady - sure audio is relatively unimportant, but is all related. Have engaged against all those and will continue to do so.

Last and this is from answering to the previous post. "Fool" is not an insult. It is a description. Someone who buys a $28,000/m cable that is indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice can be described as a fool. For example, to call me short (or ugly!) is not an insult to me - it is true. Just descriptive.

Once in a while we get peeps here for some reason come to duck it out re: subjectivism in audio. Guess they feel they are fighting the good fight. Is all good - it makes it interesting here.

v
 

Wes

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ecru is just a troll, here to mess with the site - one of many as this site has grown in influence


trolls brain.gif
 

Pugsly

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Just to reply to this and a previous post by @escksu . To make it about personal free will is missing the point of the conversation spectacularly. All in the above in the post is true. All irrelevant.

The point is that, yes, just by existing, magical thinking in audio should be fought. Even if preaching to the converted here, even if ducking it out at magical thinking sites and forums and getting ignored and piled on, it should not be left unchallenged. The other part that bothers me about that kind of spending (other than it could be better used EVEN if benefiting only the spender) is that it feeds and funds the propagation of irrational thinking.

Every bit of argument pro rational thinking, is worth it, be it against magical audio stones, $28,000/m cable that is indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice, flat earthers or anti-vaxxers. All exercising their personal freedom. All fools.

Is all part of the same malady - sure audio is relatively unimportant, but is all related. Have engaged against all those and will continue to do so.

Last and this is from answering to the previous post. "Fool" is not an insult. It is a description. Someone who buys a $28,000/m cable that is indistinguishable in a DBT from Monoprice can be described as a fool. For example, to call me short (or ugly!) is not an insult to me - it is true. Just descriptive.

Once in a while we get peeps here for some reason come to duck it out re: subjectivism in audio. Guess they feel they are fighting the good fight. Is all good - it makes it interesting here.

v

I agree that the problems in audio, while more audaciously and widely entrenched in a field that should be dependent on electrical engineering, etc., is symptomatic of a wider set of social issues that are worth combatting. That said...

[The following, please note, are general comments and need not apply to @escksu - his/her personal situation is of course unknown to me]

I would still suggest that calling someone a fool is counterproductive, however. You might not be insulted if someone told you that you are short or ugly, but most people would be. If the aim is to educate, you need to not immediately alienate - if someone went to the gym, got a trainer, and the first thing the trainer said to them was, "Great God, man, you are one fat, overweight, weak SOB!" most people would not go back. Similarly, if someone is dipping their toes into a forum like this, even if they are combative, it does little good to tell them that they are a fool, idiot, etc.

It helps to remember, too, that in some instances you are talking about a whole lot of sunk time, money, and energy, as well as pride in being 'in the know' about all sorts of wonderful new devices, etc. that allow them to appreciate music in a manner that is out of the reach of most people. The cognitive dissonance is hard for people to get over, as is the shame, anger, embarrassment, etc.

It is also unnecessarily reductive. To say that someone has be or is fooled by something or someone is one thing - it need not characterize someone as a whole, they can be intelligent, knowledgable, and successful in other fields and the furthest thing from mere fools. As I said above, everyone has been conned at one time or another, but if you and @gsp1971 agree that part of the purpose of this forum, or at least your interactions in these forums, is to educate people, I think it is a good idea to consider sound pedagogical strategies.

PS,
My own quite foolish, clumsy, and in retrospect embarrassing attempt to elicit reflections on these matters and inept proposal as to how members of this community with similar motivations to yourself and @gsp1971 might attempt to work out a possible way of reaching people can be found in the link below - but please read my last posts first, as I had to play clean-up, explain where I was coming from, and eat a fair amount of crow, given how I framed/raised things in my original, first post :facepalm::
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-w-sennheiser-hd6xx.24611/page-4#post-841766
Thankfully, we can also learn from shame and embarrassment, and in the end, the fool is the person who refuses to grow, learn, and admit to themselves that they have ever behaved foolishly.
 
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Victor Martell

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I agree that the problems in audio, while more audaciously and widely entrenched in a field that should be dependent on electrical engineering, etc., is symptomatic of a wider set of social issues that are worth combatting. That said...

[The following, please note, are general comments and need not apply to @escksu - his/her personal situation is of course unknown to me]

I would still suggest that calling someone a fool is counterproductive, however. You might not be insulted if someone told you that you are short or ugly, but most people would be. If the aim is to educate, you need to not immediately alienate - if someone went to the gym, got a trainer, and the first thing the trainer said to them was, "Great God, man, you are one fat, overweight, weak SOB!" most people would not go back. Similarly, if someone is dipping their toes into a forum like this, even if they are combative, it does little good to tell them that they are a fool, idiot, etc.

It helps to remember, too, that in some instances you are talking about a whole lot of sunk time, money, and energy, as well as pride in being 'in the know' about all sorts of wonderful new devices, etc. that allow them to appreciate music in a manner that is out of the reach of most people. The cognitive dissonance is hard for people to get over, as is the shame, anger, embarrassment, etc.

It is also unnecessarily reductive. To say that someone has be or is fooled by something or someone is one thing - it need not characterize someone as a whole, they can be intelligent, knowledgable, and successful in other fields and the furthest thing from mere fools. As I said above, everyone has been conned at one time or another, but if you and @gsp1971 agree that part of the purpose of this forum, or at least your interactions in these forums, is to educate people, I think it is a good idea to consider sound pedagogical strategies.

PS,
My own quite foolish, clumsy, and in retrospect embarrassing attempt to elicit reflections on these matters and inept proposal as to how members of this community with similar motivations to yourself and @gsp1971 might attempt to w possible way of reaching people can be found in the link below - but please read my last posts first, as I had to play clean-up, explain where I was coming from, and eat a fair amount of crow, given how I framed/raised things in my original, first post :facepalm::
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-w-sennheiser-hd6xx.24611/page-4#post-841766
Thankfully, we can also learn from shame and embarrassment, and in the end, the fool is the person who refuses to grow, learn, and admit to themselves that they have ever behaved foolishly.


You are 100% right in your assertions - "foolish" would be more appropriate. But in general I keep my most, err, blunt descriptions, ideas to when I am preaching to the converted... here for example. Out there always try to be careful and polite - you mentioned it , avoid shut down of the conversation. Yours is a mature response!

v
 

egellings

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It's simple; A company that will charge 28G's for a cable will not have the slightest incentive to pay an employee wage that is commensurate with the cable price. It's just a money f**k, plain & simple. Stick it to 'em & laugh, with your middle finger in the air, all the way to the bank. Capitalism at its finest. Sorry. All you can do is not buy the cable.
 

gsp1971

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It's simple; A company that will charge 28G's for a cable will not have the slightest incentive to pay an employee wage that is commensurate with the cable price. It's just a money f**k, plain & simple. Stick it to 'em & laugh, with your middle finger in the air, all the way to the bank. Capitalism at its finest. Sorry. All you can do is not buy the cable.

In every aspect of life and business, people will take advantage of your ignorance or lack of knowledge to extract as much money out of you as possible. Plenty of examples: doctors, car salesmen, real estate agents, electronics salesmen, electricians, plummers, take your pick?

The denominator is the same. Get the knowledge so that noone can take advantage of you. And spread the knowledge around to help others too. In time, customers will be knowledgeable enough and companies will have no option but to change.
 

Victor Martell

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It's simple; A company that will charge 28G's for a cable will not have the slightest incentive to pay an employee wage that is commensurate with the cable price. It's just a money f**k, plain & simple. Stick it to 'em & laugh, with your middle finger in the air, all the way to the bank. Capitalism at its finest. Sorry. All you can do is not buy the cable.

Indeed - was just hoping, but tbf, probably you are 100% right.

v
 

egellings

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If you are a multi-millionaire and 28 grand is just pocket change and they tickle your fancy, then I guess; enjoy the fantasy. It not for us chickens, though, bedawk!
 

SIY

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How many more posts until nazis are mentioned I wonder? This thread is definitely heading in that direction.
To quote Elaine Benes: “I never met a guy named Stuart who was normal.”
 

AdamG

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How many more posts until nazis are mentioned I wonder? This thread is definitely heading in that direction.
You just did. :mad:
 

MarkS

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SIY

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A bargain at only 20K USD!

Do these jokers have the slightest understanding of quantum mechanics? Somehow I doubt it ...
"I don't need to run faster than the bear, I just need to run faster than you."
 
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