Mental Health and Audio Perception/Enjoynment

[FrantzM]

Hi

Mental health is a very serious issue. I am not an expert but know that it is difficult to address it on an audio-related forum. This out ...

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to upgrade. In order to increase your system audio performance the right questions as in any endeavor, produce the best responses: You must know what in your system needs to be improved and the threshold at which you will not hear or better you cannot hear any more improvement. If you identify areas of audibly perceivable weaknesses in your music reproduction chain and address these you shall obtain results that are objectively and subjectively superior.
That is one of the advantage of the path taken here at ASR: Science based, thus repeatable and deterministic. This is is in strong opposition to that taken by High End audio of which you seem to be a recent deserter . I have been on that path. In that realm, words like "synergy" are key... and like the gains that are promised , the mind comes quickly to the conclusions that it was all imaginary ,,,, and the chase continue , the promises becoming more outlandish as you spend more, from smallish to no gain and even serious regression at times. For most it is a benign affectation with mere consequences, for a few it increase their anxiety and their feeling of insatisfaction triggering increasingly negative state of mind.

We know now that you don't need to spend an arm and a leg to reach a state of audio bliss. We also know there are limits to what we can hear. e.g no one can hear difference between 115 dB and 120 dB of SINAD ,,, actually under most conditions people with the best ears are incapable to discern 85 dB of SINAD from 120 ... DACs are virtually transparent. (See this post anything that is not RED is transparent to most ears). We are at that point: the DAC issue is solved. There is nothing wrong with chasing the last dB of perfection , interestingly enough and thanks to ASR , we know now that it doesn't have to cost a lot, even in real people money, as opposed to audiophile money where a $1000 Power cors is said to be affordable ... No! We have a $100 DACS with a SINAD of 109 dB .. meanwhile at the other end a $15,000 DAC that barely reaches 85 dB .. You may not hear the difference between the two but ... do you need to spend $15,000 to test that ? Based on anecdotes of soundstage of cosmic dimensions and blackness or on a set of measurements that tells you what you will hear?
Considering your point about the Toping D30 + PC Board doing a better job than the LG7 ... I don't think it is a delusion.

You Grado impedance is 32 ohms and in his tests Amir mentioned that

As we see, the headphone amp does not like low impedances. It sharply drops output voltage resulting in very low power outputs. This is the opposite of external headphone amplifiers where lowering the load impedance increases their output power.

Your LG7 doesn't like low impedance , its output is miniscule under these conditions.. Your headphones are low impedance ... looks like your Wow moment was real!

Peace

 

[pozz]

Remember that this kind of trepidation is an industry issue. It's produced by the relationship between manufacturers, dealers, advertisers and consumers, in the things they say and do.

There are things you can do personally to address it, feel better and have a greater sense of control. The real way to fight it is to learn the engineering and psychoacoustics at least to some degree and spread that around by asking questions and demanding answers.

 

[ta240]

The only time I've been truly happy with my audio components is when I stopped visiting forums and youtube.

I find there will always be someone describing the way somethings sounds in terms that makes me believe it sounds better than what I have.

I have gotten better at pausing before I place my order and giving myself time to realize that the new amp/dac/speaker/interface etc. isn't really going to make a world of difference.

My observation is your hifi habits need to include DIY - build a electronics kit or two, learn some new skills along the way, and proudly say - you did it.

That is the biggest money pit of all for me. DIY builds tend to have very little to no resale value unless built by someone that is known as a skilled builder. DIY builds always look inexpensive until you really total up all that is needed for the complete build. And they almost always have people raving about how amazing they sound. So I start with "only $35 for pcbs" and then "only $40 for components" and "woops, that is just one channel" then "oh, and this other component that is hard to find" and "also need a case" and....

But at the same time building DIY components is one of the most relaxing things I do. Until I look at my shelf full of completed circuit boards, amps and speakers and think "what the heck am I going to do with all of that?"

 

[RayDunzl]

Have two systems.

One lesser, one better.

Listen to the lesser one most of the time.

When you need an "upgrade" listen to the better one for the rest of that day.

Repeat.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

The self imposed ( certainly in some equipment ) limitation of 20khz is an interesting one to read about:
http://wilson-benesch.com/reviews/Life_Beyond_20kHz_Blackmer_SVC_Sep-1998.pdf

uh huh.

 

[Deleted member 9286]

This is an interesting topic and it is quite a surprise to see so many of us experiencing virtually identical impulses to upgrade/tweak.

I can relate to this completely. I actually credit this forum with helping to minimise these feelings for me. I actually had to physically stop myself visiting HeadFi as it was leading to constant, ridiculous purchases, with zero satisfaction. I was definitely not alone over there, struggling with this.

I agree with @pozz that this behaviour is proactively engineered by some forums/manufacturers/media companies as it’s incredibly lucrative.

As pathetic as this sounds, these forums actually helped reduce this nervosa in me, by focusing me on learning new things and gaining knowledge rather than hunting for the next tweak that would be a game changer in my system. It’s also a reality check for your expectations which is important in this hobby.

When I think about some of the stupid things I’ve bought or done based on the ramblings of a few morons on Headfi, I feel quite embarrassed.

 

[JohnBooty]

Not exactly what you're asking, but music definitely stops sounding enjoyable to me when I'm depressed.

In fact, that's one of the most reliable ways I have to diagnose myself.

As far as "wow factor" you already have some pretty good gear so you will might not never experience it again from gear alone. You are now chasing that last 1% or 2% probably.

Two pieces of advice about the "wow factor"....

1. Have you had your hearing checked? I found out I had some hearing loss in the high frequencies and EQing my music by a few dB above 8khz has given a MAJOR boost to my listening enjoyment
2. Try different technologies like planars or electrostats... they bring a different sound, you might rediscover your love that way
3. It might be a dangerous road for somebody with "upgrade-itis" but since you're a headphone guy... speakers can sometimes create an emotional connection with music that headphones can't

 

[Wombat]

Depression.

Talk to a qualified medical practitioner if this seems somewhat familiar:

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-f...fQ5kMArwA5En0stw-w69k5UsZR6JQG2xoC0iYQAvD_BwE

 

[LTig]

Well, the fastest way to cure upgraderitis is having no money. So try to spend your money were there is more joy to find in music: go to live concerts. You may find new friends there as well.

One rule helped me to overcome upgraderitis at an early stage: After buying a new component do not visit any dealer or audio show until the component breaks or you cannot live with it any longer (minimum 5 years).

What you should do when you want to invest in speakers: get Floyd Tooles book and read it. Get a measurement microphone and REW and learn room EQ. Together this will allow you to get the most SQ out of what you have, and in many cases will be better than even the most expensive highend systems which suffer from intentionally(!) not applying EQ for BS reasons. Last year I listened to a system where just amps and speakers had a price of 500,000 € and I still preferred mine (15 years old and 1% worth).

But even my or better systems will never reach the eperience of a live concert. Especially when for example in the opera house suddenly the full choir sings from behind (they silently sneaked in) or singers walk through the public and sing at full amplitude right in front of you.

 

[VMAT4]

I keep asking myself, "how can I make what I'm listening to, sound 'better'?"

I keep finding myself wanting to spend more money on audio equipment, when in reality, perhaps I don't really need to.

I apparently have a top of the line DAC (my cellphone of all things... the LG G7), good headphones (Grado RS1i, among others) and decent source(s) (high quality streaming apps...).

And yet, I never feel "fulfilled", "satisfied" or that "wow" factor anymore. (it's extremely rare) ...

... I'm not sure if I'm making much sense.

I'm just trying to figure out whether more "better" audio equipment will bring me "more joy" or whether it's just me.

Thank you for reading.

Now that "the THRILL is gone" ie. you have become acclimated to superior, when compared to the mainstream, sound reproduction, you can give up on finding the ultimate audiophile "WOW". And, concentrate on finding those pieces of music that will never fail you. No matter what sound system is used to reproduce those. I like Tintagel by Sir Arnold Bax. It's one of my favorites!

 

[LTig]

The self imposed ( certainly in some equipment ) limitation of 20khz is an interesting one to read about:
http://wilson-benesch.com/reviews/Life_Beyond_20kHz_Blackmer_SVC_Sep-1998.pdf

Uh huh. Nice mix of science and "I believe" without showing hard data. 20 years old and science has found no hard data since then which support these believes. It has found data which explains why people may hear a difference when listening to signals above 20 kHz: IMD in the tweeter which is beliw 20 kHz and therefore audible!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

As far as "wow factor" you already have some pretty good gear so you will might not never experience it again from gear alone.

Yes but you should be getting it, continually, from the music.

 

[TimF]

When we were young enthusiasm, energy, thrills and passion came easy. Most of everything was new and world was oh so large. Later in life we beomce adept at selecting pursuits that give us stimulation and a particular reward. Much of it that we pursue is virtual stimulation that in reality lacks the dynamism of reality. We chase peak experiences one way or another. The rewarding experience cannot be sustained, even by drugs. If you life long enough you will have to confront and accommodate that decline in speed and magnitude of your response to stimulus. You can listen to the Beethoven Symph. 5, or Stairway to Heaven so many times before it makes you puke. It is not a good sigh or a bad sign when we get more interested in the equipment than in the music, or we notice the furnishings in the settings in porn for that matter. I've found the meditation is the activity that I find most satisfying and that sustains in being satisfying. By the way, a woman asked me on a date to hear a choral concert. I like choral music. It was the National Lutheran Choir which is a good choral group. At the event I find out it is a Festival of Hymns and not a concert performance. In fact, the audience was to sing along. Lutheran hymns are pretty dull to someone brought up with Catholic music. I didn't sing along. Odd, the audience well knew all the hymns just like they were Proud Mary, Stairway to Heaven and Satisfaction.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You can listen to the Beethoven Symph. 5, or Stairway to Heaven so many times before it makes you puke.

Speak for yourself, at least as far as Beethoven is concerned. Stairway to Heaven never thrilled me.

 

[VMAT4]

If I had all the time in the world, I could try to listen to the prelude to the first act of Lohengrin until nauseated. And NEVER WOULD I BE SICKENED.
Everybody has a fave or two like that. But, Stairway to Heaven, Hotel California, and Free Bird will always be to me the top three of overplayed musical(?) emetics.

 

[astr0b0y]

Thank you for understanding.

I am currently suffering from depression among other things and didn't quite know how to depict that in what I wrote/ I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to flat out say it. But I guess that cat's out of the bag now.

Can you explain what "nervosa" is and how it relates?

I read this post this morning while contemplating getting out of bed. Thanks for sharing. I'm in the same boat and know what an ordeal it can be to explain your situation.

Often I cannot listen to any music (or read any fiction) when my levels of depression/anxiety are high which sometimes lasts months. When I'm not so affected I enjoy listening as much as the next human and do often think about what I could do to improve my system. It almost always comes back to the realisation that, for me, if I'm not happy about the sound it's usually an affect of not being happy with myself.

 

[Wombat]

This thread shows that most people, albeit well-meaning, have no idea about dealing with disabling depression.

If depression is interfering with your life, see a medical professional. No shit.

 

[Doodski]

This thread shows that most people, albeit well-meaning, have no idea about dealing with disabling depression.

If depression is interfering with your life, see a medical professional. No shit.

The methodology of ,"Suck it up princess!" is still alive and well. I now take a cocktail of 2 different meds everyday and can state with ease life is better now. Less stress leading to paranoia, anxiety and doubts. Took me decades to come to terms with it but it is what it is. I'm more calm and collect than most everybody around me now. If one is experiencing mental health issues longer than 6 months then by all means get some formal help; you'll thank yourself later and won't waste years and broken relationships, "Sucking it up princess."

 

[LDKTA]

This thread shows that most people, albeit well-meaning, have no idea about dealing with disabling depression.

If depression is interfering with your life, see a medical professional. No shit.

Agreed. This isn't a joking matter whatsoever... I would highly recommend for the OP to seek help from a trained medical professional as well. He isn't alone and there is nothing to be ashamed about.

 

[Doodski]

Agreed. This isn't a joking matter whatsoever... I would highly recommend for the OP to seek help from a trained medical professional as well. He isn't alone and there is nothing to be ashamed about.

It took me nearly 2 years for a general physician's referral to get me to a shrink... They are in short supply so the faster one reacts and gets help the better. They are there to help and want to help. They've seen it all before in most cases and will not be shocked or surprised by what one has to tell them.